Originally Posted by
oneofthosepeopleyouloveto hate
Is it "hogwash" to believe that somewhere, sometime, a terrorist won't attempt to stage another 9/11?
I would argue that we would be better-prepared to prevent another 9/11 if the TSA
was not currently in charge of security. The illusion of security is more dangerous than no security at all. How many successful hijackings have there been from US-originated flights since 1900 to Sept 10, 2001? None. How many have there been since Sept 12, 2001? None. No difference between TSA & without TSA.
I hope I don't offend too many people when I say this (particularly those who lost loved ones,) but the 9/11 hijackers did a pathetic job, yet at the same time won the war. The hijackers were opposed to the many freedoms available in this country. The US government has handed them a big win by drastically reducing those freedoms.
At the same time, the hijackers' plan was absolutely pathetic. If they wanted to create REAL terror and uncertainty, spacing out the attacks and using multiple modes of attacks would have created far more uncertainty and fear. Have a plane drop out of the sky about once a month or so, make it look like mechanical defects or weather. Take out a few key pieces of the U.S. power grid and watch entire areas of the country be with limited power service for months. Kill the water pumping capabilities for a large city, knock out a dam or tunnel for more fun and chaos. The possibilities and opportunities are endless.
In the aftermath of 9/11, everyone focused on planes. It was only after the completely unrelated anthrax attacks that anything other than aviation was looked at. Even today, the majority of the efforts are based on pax of commercial airlines being the enemy. Hate to break it to you, but very few criminals use the exact same plan multiple times.
But stop and think about what happened to the U.S. economy in the wake of 9-11, due to the fear and uncertainty. Now think about what would happened to our now greatly weakened economy if another attack were perpetrated today.
What
direct effect did the attacks have on our economy? The loss of commercial real estate, which was insured and reinsured by many global insurers. People dumping stocks isn't a bad thing. Take a look at the job market in 2001-2002 and 2008. I didn't see the job losses back then that I do today. When watching the stock market panic in '01, my thoughts were that Americans were doing far more damage to the economy than the terrorists ever did. I still believe that today, with today's economy and stock market as proof positive. I won't lie, 9/11 and the security hysteria that was soon to follow and still continues today has made money for me.
And the wheelchair-bound passengers don't have to pass a 10-year background check like employees do.
I'd argue that my LEO friend in the wheelchair and my own security clearances were far more extensive than the rubbish checks performed by the TSA. If the TSA conducted their background checks the way some of the federal agencies do (such as visiting old employers, contacting old high school teachers, etc.), then maybe such background checks would be more than just a PR buzzword.
Now, common sense dictates that a person surely is able to remove their shoes SOMEHOW -- they aren't going to keep them on 24/7, for the rest of their lives! It may be difficult, they may require assistance, they may not WANT to ... but there has to be a way those shoes will come off! So, if someone alarms the ETD, then claims they CAN'T take their shoes off -- well, I'd look askance at that, too. It simply doesn't make sense.
I offered to help (since I had helped him put them on that morning) but multiple TSOs barked at me to leave the area. They didn't seem to be willing to help. My friend told them they could take them off, but only if they were willing to help him put them back on. We're talking simple trainers here, not any special shoes. They could have helped him if they wished.
And keep in mind the SOP says that if the footwear can't be sufficiently screened, the passenger can't be allowed into the sterile area. Therefore, the screeners may not have been out of line in telling your friend he'd miss his flight if he wouldn't comply. "If you don't remove your shoes, you're going to miss your flight," could be taken as a threat -- or a simple statement of fact.
I was within earshot of the entire conversation. It was meant as a threat. It also didn't help that the screener pointed to the plane departing from the gate and said sarcastically, "Oh look, your flight's leaving." I enter secure buildings all the time and work with many true security professionals as part of a normal day. I've never seen any of the TSA's style of bullmanure nor TSO-style arrogance at these buildings. Maybe (hopefully) things are different at your airport than they've been at the ones I've been through.
I think very often problems arise because the rules, and our rationale, isn't communicated adequately.
Whoa, hold up a second there. You can't spell rationale without rational. There isn't anything rational about the TSAs policies. Just because one idiot tries to light his shoes on fire, the TSA creates a knee-jerk policy of shoe removal. Similar for the Hollywood-dream plan of using a liquid bomb.
After the first incident, the aforementioned LEO and myself had lunch and discussed the ways to accomplish terrorist acts with commercial airlines and the TSA in place. Sadly, in a few short minutes we were able to come up with no fewer than 15 different ways, all very plausible. Some of them included terrorist acts on the cattle-chute lines for pax waiting to enter the screening area. We hadn't even bothered getting into MacGyver-style tricks with ballpoint pens. The ultimate conclusion that he had also mentioned in his training was that
there is no way to stop someone who doesn't value their own life. Maybe the TSA's techniques would work against old-school terrorism where the terrorist wants to live. When dealing with suicidal zealots, there's very little that can actually be done.
We would have no way of knowing that a passenger is a LEO or, for that matter, if they really need to use a wheelchair or if it's just a ruse to get through security.
I actually don't expect TSOs to treat LEOs nor disabled pax any differently than any other pax. I expect them to treat ALL pax with respect....something which the TSA still has yet to understand. I think it'd be quite beneficial if the TSA would focus less on the # of screeners and instead focus on the quality of the screeners. Give the TSOs more training and more money to encourage a higher-calibre of person, people who WANT to be in this job, not because ground ops jobs at the airport are full.
Interestingly, I have found that elderly and/or handicapped people are the most likely to have things (usually money) concealed on their person.
OMG! A person's carrying their money on them rather than let it get whisked away on the x-ray conveyor belt where the TSOs make no attempt nor take any responsibility to ensure its safety. What a shock. I'm fully able-bodied and I still keep my money clip and wallet and car key and house key in my pockets. Kind of funny... the particular locks I use on my homes have a key which actually is designed to be used as a self-weapon. Nice chisel-point on it, with some nice serrations to inflict more damage when pulling it out of the attacker's body.
Actually, add that to the list of things the TSA has missed -- my Surefire E2D Defender torch (flashlight). That's always in my laptop bag, so it's been through security and carried on every flight I've been on in the past few years.
Originally Posted by
halls120
ILet me say it one more time - better gate security would not have prevented the 9/11 attacks. The hijackers could have been successful with nothing more than a ball point pen.
Or a plethora of any other items commonly found inside an aircraft cabin. Like my LEO friend said, you can't stop someone who is very determined. The same's true about building security as well. I can stop the common burglar, maybe even some of the pros. Bring in the fine art pro burglars and forget it. I can delay them or make things more challenging, but I can't stop them.