Part Two - Galileo: "THIS SERVICE HAS BEEN STOPPED!"?
Aug 5, 2004, 6:27 am
#164
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 1,442
I agree. It is unstable and at 2000 hrs BST was giving the error message - probably all the US traffic overloads it. Hoever, I think that it is a privilege to have access to such information and it is most useful in trying to book upgrade awards. That said I had to go blind when the system crashed for some time in June (I think) - and one has to work out when it is likely to be on or not. One just has to be aware that it cannot and should not be relied on 100%
I thank Matthias for all his work which has certainly made life very helpful.
I thank Matthias for all his work which has certainly made life very helpful.
Aug 5, 2004, 7:30 pm
#166
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP / LT PLT / 3MM, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 35,389
Originally Posted by HolidayRoad
If I'm using the tool to check availability for my (Plat) upgrade, what fare codes represent seats in First into which I could be upgraded? F and A?
Aug 6, 2004, 3:42 am
#167
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Canada
Programs: AC SE 2MM, HH Dd, SPG; IC Pl/A; AA; DL
Posts: 14,321
In addition to Air Canada rewards, I find it most useful for Chinese domestic flights. This is the only software that I have easy access to that shows true loading on in-China flights. Other software may not show flights that do exist or may show lots of availability for these Chinese domestic flights when there is none.
Aug 7, 2004, 9:16 am
#168
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: AA Gold United Premiere Exec Marriott, Starwood
Posts: 22
Good on ya.
Originally Posted by smile67
Ok, Cygnus X-1 this will be my last reaction to your comments independent from further statements of you, so enjoy reading and have a nice day 
!
First of all don't think you are marking me mad, i wrote it in the old thread and now once again, it's not worth to answer your self-explanatory personal and unobjective attacks - yesterday "s-h-i-t" was short enough to make an exception, it was no personal attack, only a fact. I don't know your goal exactly, but it seems to me you have too much time, perhaps nobody speaks with you, so making trouble is good to spend your time. But this is a community and the more you do like this the less you are accepted -and this has nothing to do with an won opinion. Ok, i know for persons like you, it's not important, perhaps nothing is important for you. For me you are a poor person and i say it without beeing angry... The tool is up, now and for the future your oppinion is not the reason to change this -sorry, perhaps this was one of your goals.
The blocking of the tool is very easy to understand, there is a limit for requests otherwise we have to pay higher charges, so perhaps it's a first kind of promotion or later on a little service for a low fee, no secret - justification it's not necessary for me, but it's another exception especially for friendly and helpful persons like you! And aside from there are many registered airlines and pilots too, so the tool is not as secret as you think.
That's all and nothing more...
!First of all don't think you are marking me mad, i wrote it in the old thread and now once again, it's not worth to answer your self-explanatory personal and unobjective attacks - yesterday "s-h-i-t" was short enough to make an exception, it was no personal attack, only a fact. I don't know your goal exactly, but it seems to me you have too much time, perhaps nobody speaks with you, so making trouble is good to spend your time. But this is a community and the more you do like this the less you are accepted -and this has nothing to do with an won opinion. Ok, i know for persons like you, it's not important, perhaps nothing is important for you. For me you are a poor person and i say it without beeing angry... The tool is up, now and for the future your oppinion is not the reason to change this -sorry, perhaps this was one of your goals.
The blocking of the tool is very easy to understand, there is a limit for requests otherwise we have to pay higher charges, so perhaps it's a first kind of promotion or later on a little service for a low fee, no secret - justification it's not necessary for me, but it's another exception especially for friendly and helpful persons like you! And aside from there are many registered airlines and pilots too, so the tool is not as secret as you think.
That's all and nothing more...
Sep 16, 2004, 12:02 am
#171
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Europe
Programs: AC Elite *G :: LH Sen *G :: IC Royal Amb :: PC Plat :: HH Diamond
Posts: 2,000
Originally Posted by tt7
... and while we're at it, include a link to KVS' tool as well (thanks, KVS)
http://jove.prohosting.com/www001/KVS_Tool_1.htm
http://jove.prohosting.com/www001/KVS_Tool_1.htm
Sep 16, 2004, 5:33 am
#172
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MEL
Posts: 2,441
Originally Posted by Gustaf
This site seems to be down, any up to date information on where this KVS tool can be found?
[http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=319244]
Sep 16, 2004, 9:41 am
#173
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Europe
Programs: AC Elite *G :: LH Sen *G :: IC Royal Amb :: PC Plat :: HH Diamond
Posts: 2,000
Originally Posted by tt7
See this thread, which has an updated link.
[http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=319244]
[http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=319244]
Sep 19, 2004, 9:23 pm
#175
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MEL
Posts: 2,441
Originally Posted by micheno
Sorry but I have to ask. How do you find the the "special classes" in version 1.64? In an earlier version one could "enable" the program for that purpose but I don't see how to do it now. Excuse my ignorance.
Oct 8, 2004, 2:16 pm
#176
Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 466
In looking at results from any AA search....... it lists:
F (which id FC), the A (which is First for upgrade using miles or VIP coupon), plus (of course) all the coach fares.
Does any one know....... what is the relation / correlation..... between the inventory of A (number available in the bucket) and the inventory of X (which is the upgrade class using electronic stickers)?
thx
F (which id FC), the A (which is First for upgrade using miles or VIP coupon), plus (of course) all the coach fares.
Does any one know....... what is the relation / correlation..... between the inventory of A (number available in the bucket) and the inventory of X (which is the upgrade class using electronic stickers)?
thx
Oct 8, 2004, 3:50 pm
#177
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MEL
Posts: 2,441
Originally Posted by AA Flyer
Does any one know....... what is the relation / correlation..... between the inventory of A (number available in the bucket) and the inventory of X (which is the upgrade class using electronic stickers)?x
If you want to see X inventory, you have to specifically ask for it. There will (in theory) always be as many A fares available as there are X, and as many F as there are A. However, just because F - or A - is available doesn't mean there'll be any X.
One way to get a "picture" of what it's looking like is to (a) see what the tool shows as available (bearing in mind that it'll never show more than F4 A4, even if the cabin is empty) (b) see what ITN says is available and (c) see what the seat map looks like... Taken together, it'll give you a sense of what the likelihood is of X opening up.
l
Last edited by tt7; Oct 8, 2004 at 3:53 pm
Oct 9, 2004, 11:43 am
#178
Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 466
Originally Posted by tt7
None at all, as far as I know (at least not in any 'direct' sense). 'A' is also discounted (paid) FC (used for RTW tickets etc.).
If you want to see X inventory, you have to specifically ask for it. There will (in theory) always be as many A fares available as there are X, and as many F as there are A. However, just because F - or A - is available doesn't mean there'll be any X.
One way to get a "picture" of what it's looking like is to (a) see what the tool shows as available (bearing in mind that it'll never show more than F4 A4, even if the cabin is empty) (b) see what ITN says is available and (c) see what the seat map looks like... Taken together, it'll give you a sense of what the likelihood is of X opening up.
l
If you want to see X inventory, you have to specifically ask for it. There will (in theory) always be as many A fares available as there are X, and as many F as there are A. However, just because F - or A - is available doesn't mean there'll be any X.
One way to get a "picture" of what it's looking like is to (a) see what the tool shows as available (bearing in mind that it'll never show more than F4 A4, even if the cabin is empty) (b) see what ITN says is available and (c) see what the seat map looks like... Taken together, it'll give you a sense of what the likelihood is of X opening up.
l
Oct 10, 2004, 6:23 am
#179
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: MEL
Posts: 2,441
Originally Posted by AA Flyer
Why is it that the 'tool" onlys shows 4 (IE: F4 and A4) but ITN shows 7?
In both cases, these are minimum, not actual numbers i.e., F4 means there at least 4 seats available, F7 at least 7 ..... so if one says F4 and the other F7, then there are presumably at least 7 seats available. Any number less than 4 (and less than 7 for economy) and you'd expect them to say the same.
Nov 3, 2004, 7:01 pm
#180
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,110
great tool and a Q
Great tool -- thanks!
Just tried to look at the seatmap for AA flight 05 from SFO to JFK on Nov 5. Tried to fill out the form, and I put Y as the "class."
This is the response I got. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks!
[text]
SFO JFK NOV/05 0800 AA Y ->
CHECK FLIGHT NUMBER
SA 24Y05NOVSFOJFK
/
1 TOOL MESSAGE:
2 ACTUAL LOCAL SERVER TIME IS 02:56, UP SINCE 01:22, UP FOR 120 MINUTES
3 I.E. UP FOR THE NEXT 0 HOURS 26 MINUTES, LENGTH OF NEXT DOWN TIME PERIOD IS 300 MINUTES
Just tried to look at the seatmap for AA flight 05 from SFO to JFK on Nov 5. Tried to fill out the form, and I put Y as the "class."
This is the response I got. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks!
[text]
SFO JFK NOV/05 0800 AA Y ->
CHECK FLIGHT NUMBER
SA 24Y05NOVSFOJFK
/
1 TOOL MESSAGE:
2 ACTUAL LOCAL SERVER TIME IS 02:56, UP SINCE 01:22, UP FOR 120 MINUTES
3 I.E. UP FOR THE NEXT 0 HOURS 26 MINUTES, LENGTH OF NEXT DOWN TIME PERIOD IS 300 MINUTES
Nov 3, 2004, 9:37 pm
#181
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Beaverton OR
Programs: GE, AA PLT/2.6MM, BR Gld, Royal Carib. DM+, Celebrity Elite, NCL PLT, Princess Elite
Posts: 1,643
Originally Posted by KSinNYC
Great tool -- thanks!
Just tried to look at the seatmap for AA flight 05 from SFO to JFK on Nov 5. Tried to fill out the form, and I put Y as the "class."
This is the response I got. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks!
[text]
SFO JFK NOV/05 0800 AA Y ->
CHECK FLIGHT NUMBER
SA 24Y05NOVSFOJFK
/
1 TOOL MESSAGE:
2 ACTUAL LOCAL SERVER TIME IS 02:56, UP SINCE 01:22, UP FOR 120 MINUTES
3 I.E. UP FOR THE NEXT 0 HOURS 26 MINUTES, LENGTH OF NEXT DOWN TIME PERIOD IS 300 MINUTES
Just tried to look at the seatmap for AA flight 05 from SFO to JFK on Nov 5. Tried to fill out the form, and I put Y as the "class."
This is the response I got. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks!
[text]
SFO JFK NOV/05 0800 AA Y ->
CHECK FLIGHT NUMBER
SA 24Y05NOVSFOJFK
/
1 TOOL MESSAGE:
2 ACTUAL LOCAL SERVER TIME IS 02:56, UP SINCE 01:22, UP FOR 120 MINUTES
3 I.E. UP FOR THE NEXT 0 HOURS 26 MINUTES, LENGTH OF NEXT DOWN TIME PERIOD IS 300 MINUTES
Nov 4, 2004, 2:49 am
#182
Join Date: Aug 2004
Programs: AA Exp- 4MM; UA 1K; BA Gold; 9W Plat; SPG Plat; Hilton Diamond; LH FT; DL Gold
Posts: 458
Tool helped me get upgrades many times
I find that this tool and the KVS availability tool have helped me far too many times in getting upgrades on AA. The latest example, I was going to CUN for Thanksgiving. Purchased 4 tickets based on A availability. Fare basis one way was B (full fare) so decided to use the 7500 mile upgrade one way and use VIPs the other way. AA EXP agent tells me no upgrades outbound and upgrades only available inbound. I politely tell him that a tool I have shows A7 on SFO-MIA. He immediately rechecks, says sorry I must have typed in wrong dates and then goes on to upgrade me. Without these tools I could not have found out that the agent was in error or for that matter which flts to choose.
I run these tools first, look at availability and fare codes to choose the right flt by schedule (for low initial fare and a confirmed or high possibility of upgrades later). Thank you both (Mathias and KVS).
I run these tools first, look at availability and fare codes to choose the right flt by schedule (for low initial fare and a confirmed or high possibility of upgrades later). Thank you both (Mathias and KVS).
Nov 4, 2004, 11:33 pm
#183
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 10
For me (ex. smile67) there were two reasons to build this "Availability Tool", first to test CRS access via program and second to help users for free. Now and during the work on it the second point is/was more important and i'm very thankful for many many mails and comments (mostly good - sometimes bad, both ok).
At the moment i don't know how long this tool will work, i'm just looking (more or less) for a new job, so perhaps i'm not able to keep it up (it's not my CRS/server, only my software). Don't know what the future brings, but don't worry if someone kills my server-application which handles the requests of this tool - there are other good possibilities to request availability too.
Ok, thanks for using this tool and best regards
Matthias
At the moment i don't know how long this tool will work, i'm just looking (more or less) for a new job, so perhaps i'm not able to keep it up (it's not my CRS/server, only my software). Don't know what the future brings, but don't worry if someone kills my server-application which handles the requests of this tool - there are other good possibilities to request availability too.
Ok, thanks for using this tool and best regards
Matthias
Thanks again
Nov 9, 2004, 1:09 am
#185
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 315
I'm flying to AKL from SYD by Emirate on 13th Nov. I looked up the booking code to see whether there are any seats available. However, I am so confused with the numbers of the booking code. It's totally different.
In KVS Availabililty
EK 412 SYD 09:00 AKL 14:10 (aircraft unknown) F4 A4 J4 C4 Y4 W4 M4 B4 K4 Q4 H4 L4 T4 V4
In Availability Tool 1.64
[1] SYD AKL 13/0900 13/1410 EK412 F4 A4 J7 C7 Y9 W9 M9 B9 K9 H9 Q9 L9 T9 V9 [345]
Why it's soo different? I dont understand why?
Thanks
In KVS Availabililty
EK 412 SYD 09:00 AKL 14:10 (aircraft unknown) F4 A4 J4 C4 Y4 W4 M4 B4 K4 Q4 H4 L4 T4 V4
In Availability Tool 1.64
[1] SYD AKL 13/0900 13/1410 EK412 F4 A4 J7 C7 Y9 W9 M9 B9 K9 H9 Q9 L9 T9 V9 [345]
Why it's soo different? I dont understand why?
Thanks
Nov 9, 2004, 1:49 am
#186
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MAD/TRD EBG
Posts: 181
The KVS tool and the Availability Tool use different systems to look up the data.
When you see for example D9, this means there are 9 seats or more available in fare bucket D.
However, sometimes, the limit is not 9, but 4 seats. This means you can sometimes (quite often, actually) see D4, and this means there are 4 seats or more available in this fare bucket.
I have never seen other limits than 4 and 9, so if you see another number, for example 3 or 7, this should mean exactly 3 or 7 seats available in the bucket.
In this case, it seems EK publishes different data to the two reservation systems that KVS and the Availability tool use. In the KVS tool, the 'limit' is 4, but in the Availability Tool, the 'limit' is 9.
When you see for example D9, this means there are 9 seats or more available in fare bucket D.
However, sometimes, the limit is not 9, but 4 seats. This means you can sometimes (quite often, actually) see D4, and this means there are 4 seats or more available in this fare bucket.
I have never seen other limits than 4 and 9, so if you see another number, for example 3 or 7, this should mean exactly 3 or 7 seats available in the bucket.
In this case, it seems EK publishes different data to the two reservation systems that KVS and the Availability tool use. In the KVS tool, the 'limit' is 4, but in the Availability Tool, the 'limit' is 9.
Nov 9, 2004, 3:18 am
#187
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Originally Posted by sveg
I have never seen other limits than 4 and 9, so if you see another number, for example 3 or 7, this should mean exactly 3 or 7 seats available in the bucket.
Nov 9, 2004, 3:34 pm
#188
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
As the 2 previous posters mentioned, the maximum number of seats available for sale in each fare class, as shown in various GDS systems, can vary.
However, for each carrier, that maximum number is normally consistent across all major GDS systems. That is:
However, for each carrier, that maximum number is normally consistent across all major GDS systems. That is:
- Most carriers display a maximum of 9
- SU, LO, TG display a maximum of 4
- AZ displays a maximum of 7
Nov 10, 2004, 12:54 pm
#189
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 11
A few answers for you all. (part 1)
'Why doesn't the redemption/upgrade class I asked for appear?'
Anyone heard of POS. It stands for POINT of SALE. Everytime you make an availability entry or request a fare display, this little beauty comes into play and determines the parameters contained within the airlines response.
'Rules' set within each of the individual airline inventory systems control who gets to see what. This can run the whole gamut from everyone seeing everything, to very strict controls, whereby two people sitting in the same office, with terminals connected to the same system will get a different response to exactly the same entry made at exactly the same time. POS is one of IATA's protocols that enables an airlines revenue managment to control who can sell/buy inventory and at what price. Some of the basic rules are agent/city/country/currency etc. Note, not all systems use all rules however you can be sure that the majors probably do. This would be one of the main reason why when you request specific class availability of an airline (either direct or via a GDS) you may not get the response you want.
Another reason is that, depending on an airlines policy and fare rules, classes are blocked from display when not available and not allowed to be waitlisted. Remembering that there are a possibility of 26 single alpha chars and max 2 numeric chars and a space for each class in an availabilty display (without adding x number of combos of 2 alpha and 2 numeric chars), ie 104 spaces on the screen without flt number date bpt/opt. Try and read a screen with that sort of combo of flights on it especially if the systems is capable of building four flt connection routings. Its murder on your front end programmes that screen scrape.
Airline res screens normally have a much smaller display area than you PC (can't remember, but something like 62 chars across 34 lines down).
Anyone heard of POS. It stands for POINT of SALE. Everytime you make an availability entry or request a fare display, this little beauty comes into play and determines the parameters contained within the airlines response.
'Rules' set within each of the individual airline inventory systems control who gets to see what. This can run the whole gamut from everyone seeing everything, to very strict controls, whereby two people sitting in the same office, with terminals connected to the same system will get a different response to exactly the same entry made at exactly the same time. POS is one of IATA's protocols that enables an airlines revenue managment to control who can sell/buy inventory and at what price. Some of the basic rules are agent/city/country/currency etc. Note, not all systems use all rules however you can be sure that the majors probably do. This would be one of the main reason why when you request specific class availability of an airline (either direct or via a GDS) you may not get the response you want.
Another reason is that, depending on an airlines policy and fare rules, classes are blocked from display when not available and not allowed to be waitlisted. Remembering that there are a possibility of 26 single alpha chars and max 2 numeric chars and a space for each class in an availabilty display (without adding x number of combos of 2 alpha and 2 numeric chars), ie 104 spaces on the screen without flt number date bpt/opt. Try and read a screen with that sort of combo of flights on it especially if the systems is capable of building four flt connection routings. Its murder on your front end programmes that screen scrape.
Airline res screens normally have a much smaller display area than you PC (can't remember, but something like 62 chars across 34 lines down).
Nov 10, 2004, 1:58 pm
#190
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 11
A few answers for you. (part 2)
"Why does one display show 4 avail and others 9 etc?"
This time it's a little thing call 'Sale and Report' agreements. This is where the airlines determine what number of available seats they want displayed in another systems
.
Firstly non numeric availabilty.
If you see - beside the class it as always on apply. Await response following file down of PNR creat/update. Don't see many of those anymore.
If you see alpha chars (explained in an earlier message) instead of numeric then 'free sell' is available up to an agreed amount of seats. Exceed the amount and flt will be w/listed if not closed to w/listing. Inventory not indented till message sent following create/update of PNR. S and R agreements usually allow for knock back of free sale if flt has become overbooked in class sold.
If you see numeric beside the class then it is either,
1. As advised on the SSIM (method airlines use to send their schedule to other system) with follow up AVS messages advising current status of flight once it gets to the trigger point. This is could be 4, 7 or 9 being the industry preferred standards. Depending on the agreement the data in the AVS message may be numeric or it may switch alpha. AVS messages also apply to alpha status. The 4, 7 and 9 indicate there are at least that many seats available in the class. AVS messages can reduce/waitlist/close the availabilty, as well as open them up again. For your info one of the largest carriers in the US of A was able to generate AVS messages pointing downward but were unable to generate AVS messages to open up a class again. Don't know if this is still true, but if so would explain some of the discrepencies you see.
2. Numeric availabilty may also occur whereby the enquiring system will interrogate the airlines inventory system real time and block off requested inventory and marry to PNR following file down of the create/update.
GDS also have their own rules on number of classes able to be displayed and the order that they appear in their nuetral availabilty display. Depending on the R and S agreement, this should be able to be overcome by making a specific class availabilty for a specific carrier airline whereby the GDS will poll and display the availabilty as shown in airlines inventory system. Remember however that part 1 (my previous diatribe) mentions POS and this is also in play.
Dare I mention 'Marriage Logic' re connecting flts or should I just leave it there for the moment.
Hopefully these answers will explain a few of the whys and sooth a frustrated brow or two. Unless there has been a quantum leap in the processing generation in the last couple of years of the airlines shop window (ie their availabilty systems), looking for redemption/upgrade inventory is going to remain aaaaaggggghhhh. GUI's/front ends don't help either. Yes, give me a dumb terminal and access to the native system and I will get you those seats quicker than you can blink.
Best of luck all.
This time it's a little thing call 'Sale and Report' agreements. This is where the airlines determine what number of available seats they want displayed in another systems
.
Firstly non numeric availabilty.
If you see - beside the class it as always on apply. Await response following file down of PNR creat/update. Don't see many of those anymore.
If you see alpha chars (explained in an earlier message) instead of numeric then 'free sell' is available up to an agreed amount of seats. Exceed the amount and flt will be w/listed if not closed to w/listing. Inventory not indented till message sent following create/update of PNR. S and R agreements usually allow for knock back of free sale if flt has become overbooked in class sold.
If you see numeric beside the class then it is either,
1. As advised on the SSIM (method airlines use to send their schedule to other system) with follow up AVS messages advising current status of flight once it gets to the trigger point. This is could be 4, 7 or 9 being the industry preferred standards. Depending on the agreement the data in the AVS message may be numeric or it may switch alpha. AVS messages also apply to alpha status. The 4, 7 and 9 indicate there are at least that many seats available in the class. AVS messages can reduce/waitlist/close the availabilty, as well as open them up again. For your info one of the largest carriers in the US of A was able to generate AVS messages pointing downward but were unable to generate AVS messages to open up a class again. Don't know if this is still true, but if so would explain some of the discrepencies you see.
2. Numeric availabilty may also occur whereby the enquiring system will interrogate the airlines inventory system real time and block off requested inventory and marry to PNR following file down of the create/update.
GDS also have their own rules on number of classes able to be displayed and the order that they appear in their nuetral availabilty display. Depending on the R and S agreement, this should be able to be overcome by making a specific class availabilty for a specific carrier airline whereby the GDS will poll and display the availabilty as shown in airlines inventory system. Remember however that part 1 (my previous diatribe) mentions POS and this is also in play.
Dare I mention 'Marriage Logic' re connecting flts or should I just leave it there for the moment.
Hopefully these answers will explain a few of the whys and sooth a frustrated brow or two. Unless there has been a quantum leap in the processing generation in the last couple of years of the airlines shop window (ie their availabilty systems), looking for redemption/upgrade inventory is going to remain aaaaaggggghhhh. GUI's/front ends don't help either. Yes, give me a dumb terminal and access to the native system and I will get you those seats quicker than you can blink.
Best of luck all.
Nov 10, 2004, 6:34 pm
#191
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,642
Actually, there are 3 ways in which the actual availability number (e.g. 9,7,other) may be determined by the GDS that is being used:
1) The airline sets a specific max number they want to sell in the GDS, then broadcasts a "open-or-closed" status indicator for each flight/class of service. When the airline has fewer than the max available for sale, it sends a "closed" status message to the GDS which then starts showing 0 available..
2) The airline may send a specific number of seats to the GDS, rather than use an open/closed indicator. In this case, the messages to the GDS have a specific number of seats available to sell at a particular point in time. Clearly improved over item 1.
3) GDS's also have agreements with some airlines to actually send queries to the airline system (rather than accepting feeds of status) to see what the availability status is in "real time". The airline looks at who is asking, what the ultimate orgina-destination is or the passenger.. then they decide how many seats (if any) to show available in a class of service
Clearly the 3rd alternative is the most accurate. Sorry if this is described in some of the previous umpteen pages, but thought I'd add to what spanzviewmaster stated above. This is a large part of the reason why you find differences between airline systems and GDS's as well as differences between the GDS's themselves.
1) The airline sets a specific max number they want to sell in the GDS, then broadcasts a "open-or-closed" status indicator for each flight/class of service. When the airline has fewer than the max available for sale, it sends a "closed" status message to the GDS which then starts showing 0 available..
2) The airline may send a specific number of seats to the GDS, rather than use an open/closed indicator. In this case, the messages to the GDS have a specific number of seats available to sell at a particular point in time. Clearly improved over item 1.
3) GDS's also have agreements with some airlines to actually send queries to the airline system (rather than accepting feeds of status) to see what the availability status is in "real time". The airline looks at who is asking, what the ultimate orgina-destination is or the passenger.. then they decide how many seats (if any) to show available in a class of service
Clearly the 3rd alternative is the most accurate. Sorry if this is described in some of the previous umpteen pages, but thought I'd add to what spanzviewmaster stated above. This is a large part of the reason why you find differences between airline systems and GDS's as well as differences between the GDS's themselves.
Nov 10, 2004, 6:50 pm
#192
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,642
Also, perhaps more on topic, I do wonder at the underlying technology/connectivity used to collect the information from the tools mentioned here. Most airlines and all GDS's do attempt to keep up with unprofitable traffic that they get sent to their systems. All GDS's and airlines make money (generally) only when someone actually books travel in the system. Use of the system to do only search activities and then have bookings take place elsewhere (e.g. search GDS-book Airline web site) puts the GDS's in a position of having expensive resources consumed for no financial purpose. Activity like this can take place under the radar on a small scale, but this kind of tool either needs to spread itself out over several intermediaries, or will eventually be discovered and turned off. I have no idea if this concept is in part why these systems are not available all the time. It is certainly possible that the actual amount of traffic generated by these tools is small enough that it will not be noticed, however.
Again, I didn't read all the previous threads, so I apologize if this point is addressed previously.
Again, I didn't read all the previous threads, so I apologize if this point is addressed previously.
Nov 10, 2004, 7:58 pm
#193
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Seat 1A
Programs: Non-status paid F/J (best value for $$$)
Posts: 4,124
Become a "travel agent"
After being frustrated with the KVS and "galileo" tools, I have decided to become a travel agent and got my own Sabre access! I haven't used an online booking site since.
Sample Availablity Query:
Sample Seat Map:
Sample "Booking and Pricing":
Anyways, I find this fun...
Sample Availablity Query:
Code:
113NOVLAXHKG¤CXš
13NOV SAT LAX/PST HKG/‡16
CX RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT **
7CX 881 F4 A4 J7 C4 D4 I0 Y0 B0*LAXHKG 1215A 740A‡1 74J M/ 0
H0 K0 M0 L0 V0 S0
8CX 883 F4 A4 J0 C0 D0 I0 Y0 B0*LAXHKG 1035P 600A‡2 74J M/ 0
H0 K0 M0 L0 V0 S0
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER 1*C
1*Cš
13NOV SAT LAX/PST HKG/‡16
CX RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT **
7CX 881 F4 A4 J7 C4 D4 I0 Y0 B0 H0 K0 M0 LAXHKG 1215A 740A‡1
L0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0
8CX 883 F4 A4 J0 C0 D0 I0 Y0 B0 H0 K0 M0 LAXHKG 1035P 600A‡2
L0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0
Code:
4G*CX881A13NOVLAXHKGš
AUTH- 74J
0 - LAX 1 - HKG
NO SMOKING-LAXHKG
A D G K
1 . . 1
2 . * 2
3 . * * * 3
4 * B * * * B 4
A D G K
AVAIL NO SMK: * BLOCK : / LEAST PREF: U BULKHEAD: BHD
AVAIL SMKING: - PREMIUM: Q UPPER DECK: J EXIT ROW: X
SEAT TAKEN : . WING: W LAVATORY: LAV GALLEY: GAL
PREF ACCESS LAV: PAL DOOR: DOR SCREEN: SCR CLOSET: CLS
PREF ACCESS : H BASSINET: B UMNR: M REARFACE: ¤
Code:
121JANSFOLHR¤VSš
21JAN FRI SFO/PST LHR/‡8
VS RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT **
7VS 20 J4 D4 Z4 W4 S0 K0 Y7 B7 SFOLHR 445P 1030A‡1 74S D 0
L7 M7 Q7 X7 N7
8AA1939 F4 W4 S4 Y4 B4 H4 Q4 M4 SFOLAX 508P 622P M80 0
N4 K4 L4 V4 G4
9VS 24 J4 D4 Z4 W4 S7 K0 Y7 B7 LHR 905P 330P‡1 343 D 0
L7 M7 Q7 X7 N7
01Z7š
1 VS 20Z 21JAN F SFOLHR SS1 445P 1030A 22JAN J /DCVS /E
1¤R29JANš
29JAN SAT LHR/Z SFO/PST-8
VS RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT **
7VS 19 J4 D4 Z4 W4 S7 K0 Y7 B7 L7 LHRSFO 1100A 205P 74S L 0
M7 Q7 X7 N0
8VS 23 J4 D4 Z4 W4 S7 K4 Y7 B7 L7 LHRLAX 300P 650P 343 D 0
M7 Q7 X7 N7
9UA 978 F4 C4 D4 Z4 Y4 B4 M4 H4 Q4* SFO 1015P 1128P 320 0
V4 W4 A4 S4 T0
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER 1*C
01Z7š
2 VS 19Z 29JAN J LHRSFO SS1 1100A 205P /DCVS /E
WPš
21JAN DEPARTURE DATE-----LAST DAY TO PURCHASE 13NOV
BASE FARE TAXES TOTAL
1- USD3699.00 185.10XT USD3884.10ADT
XT 27.40US 5.00YC 7.00XY 3.10XA
2.50AY 42.00YQ 74.30GB 19.30UB
4.50XF
3699.00 185.10 3884.10TTL
ADT-01 ZHAP42
SFO VS LON1849.50ZHAP42 VS SFO1849.50ZHAP42NUC3699.00END ROE
1.00 SITI XFSFO4.5
NONREF/APEX
*IAš
1 VS 20Z 21JAN F SFOLHR SS1 445P 1030A 22JAN J /DCVS /E
2 VS 19Z 29JAN J LHRSFO SS1 1100A 205P /DCVS /E
WNš
CTY GI TPM CUM MPM SUR DED LAST NEXT 25M
SFO 1
1. LON 2 AT 5358 5358 6429 0M 0 0 1071 8036
2. SFO 1 - 5358 10716 *****
Last edited by daniellam; Nov 10, 2004 at 8:03 pm
Nov 10, 2004, 8:23 pm
#194
Join Date: May 2001
Location: is everything...but...
Programs: dont matter anymore...
Posts: 3,019
Originally Posted by daniellam
After being frustrated with the KVS and "galileo" tools, I have decided to become a travel agent and got my own Sabre access! I haven't used an online booking site since.
Sample Availablity Query:
Sample Availablity Query:
Code:
113NOVLAXHKG¤CXš
13NOV SAT LAX/PST HKG/‡16
CX RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT **
7CX 881 F4 A4 J7 C4 D4 I0 Y0 B0*LAXHKG 1215A 740A‡1 74J M/ 0
H0 K0 M0 L0 V0 S0
8CX 883 F4 A4 J0 C0 D0 I0 Y0 B0*LAXHKG 1035P 600A‡2 74J M/ 0
H0 K0 M0 L0 V0 S0
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER 1*C
1*Cš
13NOV SAT LAX/PST HKG/‡16
CX RESPONSE ** DIRECT CONNECT PARTICIPANT **
7CX 881 F4 A4 J7 C4 D4 I0 Y0 B0 H0 K0 M0 LAXHKG 1215A 740A‡1
L0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0
8CX 883 F4 A4 J0 C0 D0 I0 Y0 B0 H0 K0 M0 LAXHKG 1035P 600A‡2
L0 V0 S0 N0 Q0 O0
Smile, you listening? I'd pay up to $20/month to have FULL TIME access!
Nov 11, 2004, 2:49 am
#195
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Originally Posted by flipside
Many here, including myself, are quite green with envy.
Dec 1, 2004, 5:22 am
#197
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ireland
Programs: AA PLT 2MM, IHG Plat
Posts: 3,566
Originally Posted by Globaliser
Others might recognise the handle and think of a phrase beginning "More money ...
Originally Posted by goodo
Any advice on what to do if the only time I have a computer and internet access here in New Zealand is during a 4 hour downtime period?
thanks
goodo
thanks
goodo
Dec 1, 2004, 8:32 am
#198
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Katy, TX
Programs: AA - PLT(2MM); DL - PM(2MM); Hilton - Gold; Marriott Bonvoy- Titanium; Hyatt - Platinum
Posts: 1,718
Is the Availability Tool down, more than for just its usual down time? For the last two days, regardless of what I input, I keep getting the "Error: No Valid Result" message. The "down time message" has never appeared, only this "no valid result" message. Any suggestions?
Dec 1, 2004, 9:07 am
#199
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,182
Originally Posted by goodo
Any advice on what to do if the only time I have a computer and internet access here in New Zealand is during a 4 hour downtime period?
thanks
goodo
thanks
goodo
Dec 1, 2004, 9:08 am
#200
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,182
Originally Posted by arkangel
Is the Availability Tool down, more than for just its usual down time? For the last two days, regardless of what I input, I keep getting the "Error: No Valid Result" message. The "down time message" has never appeared, only this "no valid result" message. Any suggestions?
1 TOOL MESSAGE:
2 SORRY, TO REDUCE TRAFFIC THIS FEATURE IS TEMPORARILY DOWN! SOON IT WILL BE BACK...
3 ACTUAL LOCAL SERVER TIME IS 17:09, DOWN SINCE 13:23, DOWN FOR 300 MINUTES
4 I.E. DOWN FOR THE NEXT 1 HOURS 14 MINUTES, LENGTH OF NEXT UP TIME PERIOD IS 120 MINUTES