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-   -   Are we harming our hair with the amenities with love? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/women-travelers/1128664-we-harming-our-hair-amenities-love.html)

l etoile Sep 21, 10 11:37 am

Are we harming our hair with the amenities with love?
 
I'm getting a keratin treatment on my hair today. My stylist mentioned to be sure I don't use shampoos with sodium in them as it will wreck my hair long term and cause the treatment to not last short term.

She told me I most likely don't use shampoos with sodium as it's in the cheap ones.

Well, I went through all my "upscale" shampoos from hotels in recent months and each one, including Bulgari, has sodium. If you read about the effects they aren't good. I think I'm going to stay away from my fancy-in-name-only hotel shampoos and stick with ones from people who make only hair products and not watches too. Anyway ...just found it interesting how the name and price led me to believe I wouldn't find the cheap ingredients.

Analise Sep 21, 10 11:42 am

Be careful with getting a keratin treatment. Even in the nicest of salons, it can be a disaster. Thanks for the warning about the sodium. I had no idea and have never looked at the ingredients.

SanDiego1K Sep 21, 10 12:24 pm

I was completely oblivious to sodium even being in shampoo, let alone it causing a problem.

missydarlin Sep 21, 10 2:10 pm

did she mean Sodium Lauryl Sulfate?

l etoile Sep 21, 10 3:45 pm


Originally Posted by Analise (Post 14736767)
Be careful with getting a keratin treatment. Even in the nicest of salons, it can be a disaster. Thanks for the warning about the sodium. I had no idea and have never looked at the ingredients.

I asked a bit more about all of this. With the keratin the big problem seemed to be the formadehyde in some of the products. What I'm getting is formaldehyde free.

The sodium problem seems mostly to be sodium chloride (I was finding all sorts of sodium in shampoos so figured it couldn't be all of them). And sulfates are the other problem, including the one Missy mentions, which I found in some of my 'upscale' hotel shampoos.

try2cook Sep 21, 10 5:08 pm

l'etoile, I believe your hairdresser may thinking of the harm sodium C14-16 olefin sulfonate and sodium lauryl sulfate can do to hair. Both are drying detergent cleansing agents. (BTW, sodium LAURETH sulfate is fine.) Sodium C14-16 olefin sulfonate and sodium lauryl sulfate can fade color treated hair.

Sodium chloride (table salt) is used primarily as a binding agent in skin-care products and occasionally as an abrasive in scrub products. If sodium chloride is used as a binding agent in hair care products, it should be safe.

l etoile Sep 21, 10 5:57 pm


Originally Posted by try2cook (Post 14741335)
Sodium chloride (table salt) is used primarily as a binding agent in skin-care products and occasionally as an abrasive in scrub products. If sodium chloride is used as a binding agent in hair care products, it should be safe.

Thanks try2cook. What I'm reading about sodium chloride is that it also can strip color and products from your hair. I guess what I'm gathering from this is that if you use products with sodium chloride you may be decreasing the time your expensive color or straightening treatments would last. Does that seem logical to you? That seemed to be what my stylist concluded.

Analise Sep 21, 10 9:28 pm

This thread is fascinating. I highlight my hair 3-4 times per year and I've noticed that my shampoos and conditioners for color-treated hair have all kinds of sodium products.

So, if I'm reading try2cook correctly, sodium chloride (table salt) and sodium LAURETH sulfate are safe for highlighted hair?

SkiAdcock Sep 22, 10 7:49 am


Originally Posted by SanDiego1K (Post 14737365)
I was completely oblivious to sodium even being in shampoo, let alone it causing a problem.

Ditto.

And I've got to imagine the folk who make shampoo & conditioner especially for color-treated hair would be aware of any substance that would cause the opposite effect of what they're hoping to achieve and not include it - unless of course they're trying to sell more of the stuff ;)

Cheers.

ibdublin Sep 22, 10 5:24 pm

THe problem I found with using SodiumLaurylSulfate-free shampoo is that my hair felt quite lank - even on the day I washed it (wash every 2nd day). Generally the shampoos aren't very sudsy so I never felt that my hair was really clean or had any body. It's really difficult to get a good shampoo without it so would be delighted to hear of any options.

freecia Sep 23, 10 1:15 pm

If I end up disliking a shampoo's effect on my hair and skin, I use it to wash my shower :D A bit of baking soda, shampoo, and an old scrubby poof works decently and even better if the shampoo is a cheap cleansing type. That some shampoos clean the tub decently might be a cause for concern...

Otherwise if I like the smell but it doesn't play well with my scalp, sometimes it gets relegated to "cleansing cycle shampoo" or body wash.

Right now I'm using the giovanni line and while it doesn't foam up, is better for my scalp which can get dry with sulfate shampoos and traditional alcohol based conditioners.

Now to find a use for lotion I end up disliking. It's usually for the smell over the consistency, but some lotions are just hopeless on the moisturizing front.

peachfront Sep 23, 10 2:46 pm

If you just keep in mind that the nice people who are doing your hair are the same nice people who failed high school chemistry class and ultimately didn't make it in college, you'll avoid worrying about "stuff" like this.

How much did the fancy shampoo not containing the mysterious "sodium" cost, I wonder? It's my belief that if the shampoo doesn't explode while it's hanging out in your grocery basket, then it probably doesn't contain "sodium." It may, and probably does, contain sodium lauryl sulfate, as another more tactful poster pointed out, but so what? If you have oily hair, then I'm guessing you'll be sorry to do without that ingredient...

If my hair ever actually looked any better as a result of going to the salon, I might put up to listening to some moron with a pair of scissors in her hands yap about stuff she knows nothing about. But it never does. I give the personal "Top Idiot" prize to the stylist who claimed that my straight hair could be fixed with vitamins. No, you dummy, straight hair is genetic. It can be fixed with a perm -- with chemicals. It can't be fixed by taking a pill. Sheesh. But I'm sure she made a nice side income selling worthless pills to the desperate.

Savi424 Sep 24, 10 12:53 am

I had a Brazillian Blowout done and I love it. I will do another one when this one is about 12 weeks old. They will last longer after you have had more than one done, at least that is what my stylist told me. There are different types of Keratin treatments. I chose the Brazillian because it was the only one where you didn't have to wait 3 days to wash your hair or put it in a pony tail or behind your ears. I use Wen cleansing conditioner and it doesn't fade my hair or make the keratin wear off quicker. Regarding the formadehyde, I don't think any of the products include that in the ingredients any longer. I also think the keratin has made my hair stronger, it doesn't have as much breakage. My hair is long but fine textured and I used to get split ends, now they are noticably fewer.

l etoile Sep 24, 10 6:13 am


Originally Posted by freecia (Post 14764832)
If I end up disliking a shampoo's effect on my hair and skin, I use it to wash my shower :D A bit of baking soda, shampoo, and an old scrubby poof works decently and even better if the shampoo is a cheap cleansing type. That some shampoos clean the tub decently might be a cause for concern.
.

That's pretty funny, but not a bad thought.

Table salt (sodium chloride) is great at taking out red wine, so it makes sense to me that if it can strip red wine out of fabric and carpet easily, it probably strips things I paid to have applied to my hair just as easily.

Savi424: Today ends my three days. My hair is thick and on the dry side so it can take three days without a shampoo easily, but I'm not sure I've had a good night sleep since as I keep thinking (illogically) that I'll put some dent in my hair overnight. Looking forward to shampoo and a good sleep tonight. :)

b1513 Sep 24, 10 6:32 pm


Originally Posted by missydarlin (Post 14738686)
did she mean Sodium Lauryl Sulfate?

This additive makes hair very electric in the winter.

Bobette

try2cook Sep 24, 10 7:29 pm

Sodium itself is merely a bystander in aqueous chemistry. So sodium chloride, if it's in a water soluble product, will rinse completely out of your hair. As far as I know, there is no mechanism for sodium chloride to change your hair color, salon treated or not. In fact, salt is sometimes used to set dyes in textiles and fabric.

So, in answer to Analise's question: sodium chloride (table salt) and sodium laureth sulfate should be safe for highlighted hair. I love my hairstylist, but I've had some amiable arguments about hair care products with her.

The field of shampoos and conditioners is actually a rather boring one. They all have virtually the same ingredients.

obscure2k Sep 26, 10 12:43 pm

I was told to use Global Shampoo and conditioner after my Keratin straightening & conditioning treatment. Seems fine. No sodium chloride.

Analise Nov 4, 10 8:06 am

This was in today's news and is food for thought for those who want to get the Brazilian keratin treatments. Wearing ventilators because of toxic fumes? Check out the picture in today's NYT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/fa..._r=1&ref=style


A Safety Kink in Hair Relaxing?

As more women began clamoring for the latest sensation in hair care, the so-called Brazilian hair-relaxing treatments, the Neil George Salon in Beverly Hills, Calif., added a cabana with open sides and a fabric roof to isolate the process from the salon itself. “I couldn’t stand the fumes,” said Neil Weisberg, an owner.

Mark Garrison, the owner of a salon on the Upper East Side of Manhattan that bears his name, set aside a floor for the treatment, equipped it with special ventilators and began providing industrial-strength respirators to his clients and stylists. And a West Hollywood salon, John Frieda, relegated its straightening treatments to an open-air courtyard.

Just like the permanents that were once the height of fashion, the lucrative process of converting frizzy or kinky hair into smooth locks produces unpleasant odors. But is it dangerous, especially to the operators who apply the product repeatedly?

Last month, the beauty world was rattled when the occupational health agency in Oregon found significant levels of formaldehyde in the hair-smoothing solution sold under the name Brazilian Blowout. (A common ingredient found in many products, formaldehyde is a recognized carcinogen if it is present at high levels.) The agency said it had conducted lab tests after receiving numerous complaints from stylists citing nosebleeds, breathing problems and eye irritation after applying the product. Last Friday, Oregon authorities broadened their warning to include other hair-smoothing products, particularly those described as “keratin-based,” and said employers should take steps to protect their workers....

ShopAround Nov 4, 10 6:40 pm


Originally Posted by try2cook (Post 14741335)
(BTW, sodium LAURETH sulfate is fine.)

I just checked my bottle of Kerastase - the Bain Miroir line, for "Very Sensitised Colour-Treated Hair" - and the second product in the ingredient list is Sodium Laureth Sulfate. I read through this thread three times before determining whether or not to flush it. :)

l etoile Nov 4, 10 10:27 pm


Originally Posted by Analise (Post 15073223)
This was in today's news and is food for thought for those who want to get the Brazilian keratin treatments. Wearing ventilators because of toxic fumes? Check out the picture in today's NYT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/fa..._r=1&ref=style

Really interesting story. I was assured the product used was formaldehyde-free, but now I wonder. I wonder how much it would be to have the product tested.


After testing several hair-relaxing treatments, Neil Spingarn, the president of S & N Labs of Santa Monica, Calif., found significant levels of formaldehyde, according to documents provided by a hairdresser. Though Mr. Spingarn declined to discuss those reports, he said that salons and clients seldom know what is in the products they use. “We expect that somebody somewhere is checking everything, but that expectation is false,” he said.

l etoile Nov 4, 10 10:34 pm


Originally Posted by try2cook (Post 14781842)
As far as I know, there is no mechanism for sodium chloride to change your hair color, salon treated or not. In fact, salt is sometimes used to set dyes in textiles and fabric.

So, in answer to Analise's question: sodium chloride (table salt) and sodium laureth sulfate should be safe for highlighted hair. I love my hairstylist, but I've had some amiable arguments about hair care products with her.

I guess what I'm a bit skeptical about is that when I have spilled red wine on fabric, salt lifts the wine stain out amazingly well. It seems it would be easy to conclude then that salt would lift color out of my hair. Wrong conclusion?

phedre Nov 14, 10 7:20 am

I just had the Brazilian keratin treatment done by my stylist using a new formaldehyde free formula from Cadiveu. Here's my experience:

During actual application, the product has no chemical smell, just a pleasant perfumy scent.

This all changes once heat comes into play. Applying the hairdryer and flat iron results in clouds of acrid smoke which are extremely irritating to the eyes and throat. Mine felt very off after we were done. My stylist confirmed that it was nowhere as bad as the old keratin treatments like the Brazilian Blowout, but that it definitely bothered her if she got a face full of it.

The actual results are nothing short of stunning on my hair. I have a bit of wave and a fair bit of frizz in my very thick, very long hair. It came out looking like the pictures on the Cadiveu site - sleek, super smooth, and not a bit of frizz to be seen. Time will tell if it lasts, though I did pick up their product line as a safeguard to prolong the style - I travel too much to bother running around trying to find the "right" shampoo and conditioner right now, so it was worth the $$$.

Speaking of $$$, wow. I almost had heart palpitations in the salon. The standard treatment uses 1.5-2 oz of product and takes 90 minutes. Due to just how much hair I have, it took 3-4x the amount of product, and 4 full hours start to finish, with a junior stylist helping out on some parts. The tip ran as high as most salons charge for the service on short hair :P

Was it worth it? Right now I'd say yes. My hair is perfect, gorgeous, shiny, straight, and amazingly mobile, falling perfectly to just past my waist, and it was achieved using finger blowdrying after the final rinse, and no major brush work. If it stays like this for the promised 3-4 months I will have no problem plunking down another obscene amount of cash when the time comes.

StellaStar Nov 15, 10 6:59 am

Wow - Not a fair comment to make
 

Originally Posted by peachfront (Post 14765782)
If you just keep in mind that the nice people who are doing your hair are the same nice people who failed high school chemistry class and ultimately didn't make it in college, you'll avoid worrying about "stuff" like this.

That's an insensitive blanket statement that is offensive to hairdressers. My stylist graduated from Stanford but found her love working with people and styling hair.

You shouldn't judge someone's character or intelligence just because they take a path that's different than yours.

b1513 Nov 15, 10 5:03 pm

I read about all of you using hair straighteners and I would kill for curly hair. Not only is it beautiful, it also hides a multitude of sins. You don't need to get it colored as often since it isn't that obvious. If you overslept and don't have time to wash it, no one notices. Yep, I'd love curly hair.

l etoile Nov 15, 10 7:58 pm


Originally Posted by b1513 (Post 15147951)
I read about all of you using hair straighteners and I would kill for curly hair. Not only is it beautiful, it also hides a multitude of sins. You don't need to get it colored as often since it isn't that obvious. If you overslept and don't have time to wash it, no one notices. Yep, I'd love curly hair.

It's just the opposite for me - when I wear my hair curly I have to wash it daily since it's a disaster when I get out of bed. When I get my hair straightened I still have the option to wear it curly.

phedre: I was assured the product in my hair also did not have formaldehyde, but after reading that story in The New York Times linked above it makes it pretty clear that it's just about impossible to know for sure unless you have the product tested.

SkiAdcock Nov 16, 10 4:58 pm

Ok, I draw the line at having products tested. I love my hair, but still...

Cheers.

CDTraveler Nov 16, 10 6:36 pm

The curly-tops want straight hair, those with the dead straight hair want curls...

I'm so glad my hair has grown out enough for braids or up do's! A brush, a few pins or a clip, and I'm good to go. :D

missydarlin Nov 17, 10 2:54 pm


Originally Posted by CDTraveler (Post 15164267)
I'm so glad my hair has grown out enough for braids or up do's! A brush, a few pins or a clip, and I'm good to go. :D

So True! Heck, I don't even own a hairdryer. Every once in a while if I'm staying at a hotel I'll use one.

CDTraveler Nov 17, 10 9:52 pm


Originally Posted by missydarlin (Post 15176515)
So True! Heck, I don't even own a hairdryer. Every once in a while if I'm staying at a hotel I'll use one.

+1 We actually had to borrow a blowdryer from my neighbor for my son's science experiment last week.

And, ladies, if you're worried about what keratin does to your hair, pause to consider what chemotherapy does and be glad you don't have to worry about those side effects. :) I'm very grateful to have hair again.

l etoile Nov 21, 10 12:50 pm


Originally Posted by missydarlin (Post 15176515)
So True! Heck, I don't even own a hairdryer.

Then how do you dry your clothes? ;)

(Seriously, if I spill some water on a shirt I'm wearing the first thing I reach for to dry it is the blow dryer. It's good for warming up shoes to stretch them out too if they're tight.)

CDTraveler: Point taken. Hurrah for braids and quick up-dos. :)

Kagehitokiri Jan 3, 11 11:45 pm

related >

Originally Posted by vuittonsofstyle (Post 13789425)
Best chemical-free worldwide are as follows, in no particular order:-

SODASHI - www.sodashi.com - based in Perth, Australia. They have their own factory which makes the products to order.

The Organic Pharmacy - www.theorganicpharmacy.com - based in UK. Good spa range. Also produce shampoo, conditioner etc. Also have a very good makeup range.

Dr Hauschka - founded in 1967 in Germany yet still a great chemical-free brand. Available world-wide.

ILA-SPA - www.ila-spa.com - based in Oxfordshire, UK. Emphasis is on the energetic effect of their products.

KuuSh - www.kuush.com.au - based in Australia. They have their own manufacturing which hand-makes all products. They do not use any water in the products. Halal certified.

Living Nature - www.livingnature.com - based in New Zealand. Not geared to spa treatments - mainly a retail brand. Best aspect of this company is its Makeup range.

Suki Pure - www.sukipureskincare.co.uk - based in USA, but also sold in UK and Europe. The most pure you will find in the States.

There are a few others, like Just Pure from Munich, Germany, which is not at all bad. Not too many, though!


emma69 Jan 5, 11 11:06 am

What a weird way to phrase it "chemical free". Everything listed on those websites ingredients lists are 'chemicals' - water is a chemical, vitamin c is a chemical, Glyceryl Stearate is a chemical - they are all natually occuring, but are still chemicals.

The fact something is natural does not mean it is safe either - the worst 'chemical' burn I have ever experienced was when I was accidently exposed to neat lemon essential oil - completely natural and organic, it really blooming hurt!

MikeFromTokyo Jan 6, 11 3:56 am

Two very good brands that make mild, healthy hair care products are Aesop and Jurlique. Both brands are from australia, and use high quality and mostly "natural" ingredients.

As mentioned in the above list Dr. Huaschka is also a good brand.

I can especially endorse Aesop, as I have been using it for years and love the stuff.

sylvia hennesy Jan 6, 11 8:09 am

Hair is dead.

emma69 Jan 6, 11 9:08 am

So is my coffee table. But you will still harm it if you put a beer bottle down on it without a mat!

Analise Jan 6, 11 10:19 am


Originally Posted by sylvia hennesy (Post 15595531)
Hair is dead.

Is it completely? Hair is both alive and dead.

l etoile Jan 21, 11 10:21 pm


Originally Posted by sylvia hennesy (Post 15595531)
Hair is dead.

Part of the issue is that the skin under the hair (scalp) is not and so exposure to carcinogen (formaldehyde) can lead to cancer. Health Canada has banned the keratin treatments because of this.

The other issue is if you just paid a fortune for products to be applied to your 'dead' hair, it's kind of nice to not be using shampoos and conditioners ghat are rapidly stripping those products off.

lalala Jan 22, 11 2:34 pm

I pretty much stopped using hotel shampoo except for bliss. I take home the shampoo if I love it and use it as body wash (Blaise Mautin, for example). I usually carry a travel size of my kiehl's shampoo.


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