GUWonder

It's been a number of years since I read the article in some reputable publication that mentioned a study where this finding surprised me (in such a way that I still recall the findings related to males determining their seating position/distance). Unfortunately, I do not recall which publication it was that had mentioned the study; nor do I recall who conducted the study. I do recall that the study's methodology didn't seem out of the extraordinary in such a way as to cause me to doubt the study's findings' applicability.


I'm of the same opinion.

Analise

^

I can't even imagine how uncomfortable it must be for her. Not much you can do on a plane that is full. It isn't like she is trying to take advantage of you.

missydarlin

funny how that it was when a man intrudes personal space its automatically assumed that he's scum and being sleazy....but the woman is given full benefit of the doubt, bless her poor uncomfortable overweight heart.

.... and yes, I read the first post even before it was edited, and sorry, I think the OP was choosing to automatically assume intentions that weren't there, and that "sleazy date" was an overreaction.

I'm with GeoGirl on this one. There are plenty of ways to reclaim your space diplomatically, and without the need to assume that all men in your personal space are trying to pick you up.

gungadin

I guess because I am in my 60s that it does not immediately occur to me that the rude man who wants his space and half of mine wants anything other than to spread out. At the " invisible" age, all I do is push and keep pushing until the dweeb understands that all little old ladies are not passive. Then I smile.

GeoGirl

That's exactly what I was thinking!

Analise

I wondered who would say this! I was waiting....I don't have the kind of anger hurled at overweight people that some of you do. Check out the nasty threads on "people of size" in FT. Did you miss the last sentence of what the OP wrote on her initial post? Hint, she put it in parentheses. Those who are overweight may be considered obnoxious to some of you, but not to me.

Since the OP called it sleazy, I answered to that description. Most men certainly aren't sleazy.

GUWonder

Who knows what she may be trying. Some women do try to take advantage of other women and/or men by getting touchy.

GeoGirl

I mentioned this thread to Mr. Geogirl and after expressing sympathy for women who are inappropriately touched, he also mentioned that men have extra "equipment" in their laps that often necessitate a little leg spread merely for accommodation. We women can sit comfortably in ways that may not be comfortable for a man, though even in the tight confines of an airplane, it's not usually necessary.

My point is...let's face it...airplanes, for the most part, aren't the most comfortable places in the world, no matter who you are. Most of us are just trying to settle in and deal with the discomfort for the limited amount of time we're on the plane. Right or wrong, for some, that means spreading out and taking up as much space as the person nearby will allow - not to be rude or offensive or nasty, not because they even necessarily know they're doing something rude or offensive or nasty, but just because sometimes, that's the world we live in.

But remember, if you're content to allow someone to take over some of the space you paid for, you've just reinforced for them that their strategy is effective and acceptable. OTOH, if you let them know they're in your space and you'd prefer that they weren't, you have a chance at teaching someone to be more aware of their surroundings in the future. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I have a social encounter in which I realize I've been inconsiderate or careless of those around me, I remember that experience the next time I'm in a similar venue and try to pay more attention.

Every social interaction is a negotiation of sorts. As women, we're typically not socialized to negotiate as well as men often are. It's time we learn that social negotiation doesn't require passive aggressive behavior or overly aggressive behavior. We can simply assert ourselves (a "Pardon me," "Do you mind?" or even an "Excuse me, but please move your arm/leg/other offending body part," will do), reclaim the space that is rightfully ours, and fly in as much comfort as the limited space allows.

businesstraveller2

I take the consumer approach. I bought the space and if someone is going to take it away from me I will complain to them and to the FA if they do not stop. I have not had many instances of this in fact the closest example was not physical space but a guy who was verbally harassing me on a transcon last month. He was visibly drunk and sitting directly behind me and annoying me. I told him to stop. He did not so I quickly rang the FA call button. I ended up moving up a row and the FAs kept an eye on him. He did not bother me again after that. I should add I was in a paid first class seat on that particular flight so I feeling rather ripped off to be paying for first class and having to put up with that. I said so to both the passenger and the FA. I also sent an email complaining to the airline (who did nothing other then send me a "pat on the head" reply). But honestly even in coach I would do the same. You pay for the seat you should get the seat and the space that comes with it and not have someone taking up some of your paid for space, be they male, female, or a even a service animal. If someone is impinging on your space and won't let up, you complain immediately to the FA, get it documented and make sure they know you will ask for a refund on your ticket in writing if your situation is not dealt with.

aliceathome

I've had all of the above and I just think dealing depends on the circumstance.

The proper sleazy guy who, on a flight back from India, kept putting his hand under my blanket and rubbing my leg got told off. The men who have such HUGE equipment that their legs need to be at a 90° angle (not to mention overactive elbows) I ask politely and then, if ignored go down the passive aggressive route of spreading MY legs, and getting jabby with my pointy elbows.

And when I had an plus plus plus size passenger next to me (let me put it this way, his lap was in my lap) I went and begged the cabin crew for another seat and they found me one - and an upgrade to boot.

Analise

I read this and then read this:

On the subway, let alone on aircraft, you see some males sitting with that 90° angle hogging more than one seat. So it can be legitimized by the need for room for their 'extra equipment'? Maybe it has to do with how low some males wear their pants.

Unless someone has NEVER taken any kind of public transportation, I disagree that this is the case by the majority.

I agree.

Good point.

Typically? Maybe it's a regional thing. This isn't the 19th century.

That common sense is learned when one is a child. Like everything else, we learn how to act by the example of our parents or guardians.

SometimesFlyer

Hope you don't mind that I resurrect an older thread. Was looking for some comments and possible advice from the women here. (I'm male.)

Seated in aisle on domestic 3-3 seating. Middle was mum and her teen daughter was in window. We exchange some idle chit chat before flight, she asked for my copy of USA Today and I give it to her as I was done. Flight takes off, nothing else. I settle into a book and zone out. Probably asleep in 15 mins.

Sometime later, I wake because I feel hair and breath on my shoulder. I'm still seated straight up but mum is now leaned over at me. I look over and daughter is against the window so no help in waking mum. I gently nudge her with my shoulder as I have been in this situation before and they tend to straighten back up. Instead, what happens next surprises me.

She mumbles something, then proceeds to turn towards me and actually "cuddles" and presses against my shoulder now. I nudge her again 1 or 2 more time in the next minute and all it does is make her shift and appear to get more "comfortable" against me.

I'm an old-fashioned guy and will hold the door and give up my seat. But this one was a little too much for me. However, I did not want to embarrass her by drawing too much attention or calling the FA to wake her. I guess we both must have fell asleep. After agonizing for about 5 mins, I tap the papers that were on her lap and that wakes her. Opps, half asleep, turns around, leans against daughter, goes back to sleep.

I end up with some facepowder and lipstick on my shoulder to show for it. I go back to the lav and try to clean it up. FA sees it and tells me she thought we were a family travelling together. Oh well.

So, should I have done any different? Like a hard elbow when she first nudged my way? Or try to turn her away with my hands? Probably would have saved me the shirt. Or just chalk this up to another day, another flight? Thanks.

CDTraveler

Sounds like the lady was used to sleeping with a cuddly someone, and instinctly looked for that in her sleep. Most folk don't have a lot of personal control in their sleep.

I think you earned your "good karma points" for the week and the kindness you showed in not jabbing a sleeping person with your elbow will come back to you in the future.


p.s. probably putting your hands on her would have been a bad idea if she woke up at the wrong moment.

SometimesFlyer

That was exactly what went through my mind. I did not want to get slapped for "molest" or otherwise inappropriately touching her. It was also not easy as I was effectively one-handed as the other was being used as a pillow. Finally decided some indirect contact would be fine and went for the newspapers approach.

jerseygirl

maybe just get out of your seat and take a walk down the aisle?