Bokehman

Here’s a question for the more frequent flyers (I am not one). Is Westjet pretty much the same as AC nowadays? I haven’t flown Westjet in years, but I remember them being pretty fun (the toilet paper race). The staff really seemed like they enjoyed their jobs. The last few flights I took with them it was just like an AC flight.

Nitehawk

This seems OT for this thread.

Here�s what I�ve noticed flying WS between YYJ and YEG/YYC. In premium vs AC business class.

• WS has no beverage cart, making drink service slow. The FA takes the orders then walks back to the galley, makes the drinks and serves two seats at a time. Very inefficient. One drink per flight is the norm. If you�re lucky you may score a refill.
• The food is much worse than AC, no hot breakfast. No plated snack. Just some prepackaged snacks available.
• The upgrades are priced very low. making waiting for a gate comp up not worth it.
• Same day change can be done on the phone with WS, which is quite nice.
• ​​​​​​​Some FAs still make jokes.

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aerobod

I think the overall big picture here will be how fleet movements between WS (mainline), WO (Swoop) and WG (Sunwing) will be managed. It could well be that future WO orders will add to the WS fleet and the existing aircraft will go to WG without being reconfigured to 174 seats. I can't see WS suffering a minimum 8% cost disadvantage by flying 174 seat aircraft instead of 189 seat ones on ULCC orientated point-to-point routes where they compete with Flair and other ULCCs.

Sopwith

As one who often chose WS for my leisure flying and occasionally for business when their schedule fit mine better than AC's, I find myself in a state of great uncertainty with WS. They seem to have decided that the WS of the last decade is not the WS of the next decade. But they still haven't presented a clear picture of what they want to be and what the customer will get in terms of schedule, destinations, in-flight experience, etc. Admittedly I am probably less price sensitive that many travelers and am more concerned about comfort and reliability, but as things stand at the moment I'm very hesitant to book anything on WS until I see what they're really going to be and that their system and offerings are stable and predictable.

Symmetre

I'm not just hesitant to book travel on Westjet, I no longer have the option since they've pulled out of Atlantic Canada and made me loyal to AC by default.

Altaflyer

AC respects its status flyers by operating a fair upgrade system by not selling those seats for peanuts to anyone. There is a balance between revenue and loyalty. I know I won�t get an upgrade each time but I�ll sit in a comfortable seat on every flight. A friend recently told me WS bid upgrade for SFO to YYC started at $80�.not likely there will be many seats for status upgrades with those rates. Also, WS rewards pales in comparison to the reward spectrum I have access to with Aeroplan.

Error 601

From my four recent flights in Air Canada domestic J (A220, Max and CRJ-900) I don't think there is any distinction to be drawn experience wise. My last meal in Air Canada J was the same chicken entree you would have been served in economy on any airline on earth in 1988, the cabin crew was something between cranky and indifferent. The IFE at my seat on the A220 was broken, the power at my seat on one of the Maxes was also broken.

I just shrug. If the schedule works, the schedule works. I don't really fly any one airline enough to accrue much status with any one airline but my girlfriend who often hits gold finds it quite useless because of the confines of her travel policy.

smilee

I have seen pretty competitive AC J fares with lately. YVR=YYZ/YUL widebody $999 AC. YVR-LAX $399, YVR-FCO $1645. (downside international flights had to be booked as returns to get the lower business class fares)

I bought those on AC even when WJ was similar priced in premium/J because I value the Air Canada frequent flyer program more and find service in J to be better.

Westjet excels at a better on time performance and a great same day change policy for Gold/Platinum especially if you are flying in Y. I used to appreciate WJ service and freedom of agents to bend the rules slightly but unfortunately that culture seems to be gone.

Frequentlander

Same here.

FlyerJ

Is Westjet pretty much the same as AC nowadays?

AC vs WS? For an apples-to-apples comparison, here’s a summary of North American narrow-body service on both airlines. (i.e. excluding wide-bodies, excluding regional turbo-props)


FLIGHTS AND NETWORK:

AC:
- Most flights require you to go through one of three hubs (YYZ, YUL, YVR) although point-to-point service to/from other domestic airports remains.
- Schedule and network within Canada/U.S. remains pretty consistent year round. Sun and leisure routes change in summer and winter scheds.
- Can get you from anywhere in Canada to anywhere in the world with pretty seamless Star Alliance connectivity

WS:
- Many destinations require a YYC connection -- their one-and-only remaining hub
- Not requiring a YYC connection: Point-to-point flights within western Canada. Point-to-point flights between western and eastern Canada. Seasonal point-to-point flights between many non-YYC Canadian airports and narrowbody sun/leisure destinations.
- For U.S. destinations, they feed into Delta hubs from some other cities in western Canada.
- Very limited service of any kind east of Ontario – mostly limited trans-con to YYC.
- Schedule and network seems to be much more variable than AC, e.g. U.S. destinations and frequencies go up and down much more by season than AC.
- Connectivity outside of Canada/U.S. tends to be limited and clunky. It’s all based on code-shares and interlines … not seamless, not always easy. Highly seasonal.

SELF-SERVE TECH:
AC: Really pretty good now. Easy check-in. Good UX. Everything you might want to know is presented nicely during both the booking process and while you're travelling. Decent self-serve options during IRROPS.
WS: Not the worst, but not the best. The UX is OK, but feels dated and can be frustrating. No seat map til after you buy? No ability to filter options when looking to purchase? Why does web check-in require me to type in my locator number, even when I'm signed in? Why can't it remember my personal info like passport and KTN from my profile? And IRROPS -- well, no self-serve functionality. Instead, wait for an email from WestJet or try phoning the call center.

AIRPORT EXPERIENCE:

Check-in, at the gate, CSAs: Pretty much the same. WS used to excel here, but they’ve now outsourced most stations to third-party contractors (wearing WS uniforms) providing basic check-in and boarding functions – taking away any WestJet advantage. (Top-top-tier AC fliers have access to a Concierge airport experience that WestJet does not offer.)

Lounges:
AC MLLs: Really nice lounges, located at every major airport in Canada.
WS Elevation: Only a single lounge at YYC domestic, but it’s hands-down the best lounge in Canada. Lounges in other cities are third-party contract lounges … ranging from good (Aspire YYC transborder) to meh (YVR domestic) to a third-rate dump (YYZ domestic).

THE ECONOMY CABIN:

Y cabin seat options:
AC = a well-defined and consistent “preferred” seat product at the front of the Y cabin, offering outstanding seat pitch
WS = some rows at the front of Y are designated as “preferred” and cost more to select, although not as much additional legroom and the offering is inconsistent across aircraft types. The offering is fuzzy, and unlike AC it’s not really treated as a distict, defined product. It’s still unclear to me if those preferred seats always include extra pitch, or if they're sometimes just front-ish-of-cabin seats.

Back of Y: identical on both airlines ... except for AC flights operated on "Rouge" aircraft which have abysmal, awful, knee-crushing seat pitch in Y.

Entertainment
AC = seat-back TVs
WS = no seat-back TVs, streaming to personal device only

Buy-on-board food
AC = a really good and extensive Air Canada Bistro buy-on-board menu with hot options, meals, and fresh food. “Chef-curated” bistro boxes available for pre-order.
WS = a limited and pretty basic buy-on-board menu; extremely limited hot options. No pre-order option. Not unheard of that they run out of some items. Better to buy food in the terminal and bring it with you.

Beverages
AC = The standard free selection. For sale: the usual alcohols, basic wines, premium wines (from Business cabin), Molson Canadian, Coors Light, Heineken. i.e. slightly more on offer for drinks than WestJet
WS = The standard free selection. For sale: the usual alcohols, basic wines, Molson Canadian, Coors Light

THE FRONT CABIN:

Airport experience: Pretty much identical. Priority check-in, priority security, priority boarding, priority baggage. Except…

Lounge access included:
AC = Yes.
WS = No. Access only available if you have WS status or Priority Pass.

Seating:
A tie. Standard 2x2 North American J style seats in a separate cabin. More rows on AC, however, allowing for better access to upgrades for premium-level customers.

On-board service:
AC = full experience with hot meal on all flights over 2.0 hours
WS = full experience with hot meal on most (but not all) flights over 2.5 hours. On some flights over 2.5 hours, they arbitrarily cut out the meal service and replace it with a cardboard box containing a few packaged snack items.

FREQUENT FLIER PROGRAM

AC: Aeroplan is greatly improved from what it used to be in the bad old days. Typical status levels and benefits to most FF programs. Status recognition across Star Alliance. Earn points and status qualifying on multiple airlines. Use points on multiple airlines. Good ability to upgrade to premium cabins. It’s a points program with all of the associated frustration with reward levels and reward inventories – which, IMHO, is a bad thing. (YMMV)

WS: Typical status levels and benefits to most FF programs. Status recognition on one other airline (Delta) only. Earn points (i.e. WSD) on other airlines – but they don’t qualify for status earning -- which is a big disadvantage that I find really frustrating. Limited ability to upgrade to premium cabins. It’s a dollars program which allow you to choose any seat, any flight, and apply $ credit to it – which I personally love. Ability to earn companion vouchers (far better than the credit card version of companion vouchers) is a huge benefit -- they're great.

rataplan

They don't know what to be anymore. It changes every six months.

VoodooYYC

For the average infrequent traveller, I don't think you would notice any difference. They are pretty interchangable.

For the business traveller, there's a vast difference. WS's frequent flyer program is awful, and if you aren't YYC based and can take advantage of the Elevation lounge, provides nothing for higher end flyers. You don't even get seat selection on all flights, just a few vouchers. On AC, I get preferred seat selection on any purchase of Flex or higher.

The upgrade system is a joke, as mentioned above, they are giving seats away to any idiot for nothing. There is zero that is exclusive and elevated about Premium, either in the offering or the people flying it.

gtpman

Maybe I just have bad luck but I am done with Westjet due to their constant delays and cancellations. They cancel flights for days in advance this past Christmas due to weather when other airlines managed to still be flying. This was to avoid paying compensation. Another recent flight delayed for 4 hours due to crew shortage. I was only compensated for 2 of the 4 claims I filed. With the recent strike looming I had to cancel my flights paid for with Westjet rewards and pay cash with AC to avoid any issues if they went on strike the day before my family was leaving for disneyworld. I'm hoping I have better luck with AC.

FlyerJ

In fairness, both AC and WS have had a pretty awful 8-ish months of flying. Air Canada (and their customers) have suffered through baggage issues at their mega-hub at Pearson. They've had multiple IT failures. And they've had major irrops due to weather too. I think their stats have been slightly better than WestJet's -- but AC's performance hasn't exactly been great either.

Proactively cancelling has become SOP for every airline when they see bad weather approaching -- and every airline makes their own call. WS does it. AC does it. Every U.S. carrier does it. No airline automatically keeps on flying when a major storm is approaching -- they all make a go/no-go call on shutting down ops at that airport

It's a tough call when there's a major storm approaching a city, particularly if it's a hub or a major destination for the airline. If they don't cancel and try to keep operating, they run a serious risk of having planes and crews stuck there for days -- which then has domino effects on lots of other flights and other cities and other passengers. The idea is that they shut down service to/from an at-risk airport to preserve the rest of their operations. If they do cancel, they have upset customers and need to recover -- even if weather would have caused the flights to cancel anyway. If they cancel and the weather isn't as bad as it might have been, they lost the gamble. And it's particularly infuriating to passengers when one airline keeps operating (or tries to, at least) while another cancels. I experienced it once when I was flying AC and they cancelled multiple flights into YYC during weather -- while WS kept flying. It was super frustrating.

Unfortunately it's kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't for airlines. But this isn't unique to WestJet. AC does it, too, and I don't think they're any more or less conservative on making the call about proactively cancelling.

Their exposure on compensation claims doesn't change whether they cancel in advance due to oncoming weather, or cancel a flight because it's stuck on the ground in that weather.

I feel for everyone who got stuck in any of the WS or AC meltdowns in recent months. I can't begin to imagine the stress and frustration -- especially over lost family vacations and Christmas break trips. (I was lucky enough to have avoided them.) AC probably is a better and faster at recovering in IRROPS, and they have self-serve tech that helps passengers stay in control. WestJet, to their credit, has said that they want to get better at managing these events and they're building better systems. Either way, you need a bit of luck on your side, especially if you're flying to/from a Canadian airport in winter. IMHO the best thing is to choose a non-stop option - avoid a connection - anytime it's available, regardless of airline or frequent flier program or status.

YXUFlyboy

One quick correction - Elevation lounge access is included for Business (J) but not Premium (W). However, it is easy to get access to with frequent status matches and/or premium pass which are easy to find on credit cards.

Having flown a lot of WS premium, the hard product is roughly the same, discounting the IFE (which frankly, I don't know why everyone get so worked up about as it's never guaranteed to work - if you want to not be disappointed, bring your own entertainment). However, service and catering are way better on AC. I have yet to fly WS J so I can't compare. The comparison is likely the same in J now on TATL/TPAC - the soft product used to be better when they launched the 789s, but I think our good friend Alexis has since watered it down.

If you're at an AC hub, there's no need to ever fly WS. But being a YYC-based flier, I can't beat the convenience. Time matters a lot for me, so a direct vs. a stop makes a big difference.

There's still a fair bit of connectivity ex-YVR and ex-YYZ, especially to leisure markets. But other than that, they are basically nowhere in the east, except for east-west transcons.