WestJet pilots' union says federal arbitration may be needed to avert a strike
Apr 23, 2023, 5:55 pm
#47
Join Date: Sep 2007
Programs: HH-S WS-G
Posts: 658
Situations outside airline control include: war or political instability; illegal acts or sabotage; meteorological conditions or natural disasters that make the safe operation of the aircraft impossible; instructions from air traffic control; a Notice to Airmen (as defined in the Canadian Aviation Regulations); a security threat; airport operation issues; a medical emergency; a collision with wildlife; a labour disruption within the carrier or within an essential service provider such as an airport or an air navigation service provider; a manufacturing defect in an aircraft that reduces the safety of passengers and that was identified by the manufacturer of the aircraft concerned, or by a competent authority; and an order or instruction from an official of a state or a law enforcement agency or from a person responsible for airport security
However the airline is still required to provide a refund or alternate travel arrangements
The airline (large or small) must rebook you on its next available flight or on the flight of an airline with which it has a commercial agreement. The flight must depart within 48 hours after your original departure time. If the airline cannot rebook you within 48 hours, the airline must, at your choice:
*The size of the airline is listed in the terms and conditions of your ticket (the airline's tariff). Air Canada (including Jazz) and WestJet are currently large airlines.
- Provide a refund; or
- Make alternate travel arrangements, free of charge. The details of the new flight depend on the size of the airline, as follows.
If you chose alternate travel arrangements
Large airlines
Large airlines* must rebook you on a flight operated by any airline. The new flight must take any reasonable route out of the same airport or from a nearby airport to your destination. In that case, they will also have to transport you to that airport.*The size of the airline is listed in the terms and conditions of your ticket (the airline's tariff). Air Canada (including Jazz) and WestJet are currently large airlines.
Small airlines(omitted for this post)
If you chose a refund and you're no longer at your point of origin
If your trip no longer serves its purpose because of the delay or cancellation, and you're no longer at your point of origin (for example, if you are at a connecting point), then the airline (large or small) must rebook you on a flight back to your point of origin that accommodates your travel needs, free of charge, and refund the entire ticket (as if no part of the trip had been made).
Apr 23, 2023, 6:03 pm
#48
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 61
So if you are booked in business would they have to provide business class through a different airline?
I looked at my travel insurance and it only covers economy which is fine but disappointing lol 🤷♀️ my return is May 28 WestJet which may be affected
I looked at my travel insurance and it only covers economy which is fine but disappointing lol 🤷♀️ my return is May 28 WestJet which may be affected
Apr 23, 2023, 11:02 pm
#49
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 55
Hmm so from that is WestJet essentially required to book us on a flight with another airline to our destination even though the delay is outside of their control?
Apr 24, 2023, 9:19 am
#50
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,742
For the European flights though, strikes by an airlines employees has been ruled within the airlines control, thus subject to compensation under EC261. How is WS for living up to their EC261 obligations? I have a BCN-YYC on May 31.
Apr 24, 2023, 11:27 am
#51
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YYC, Canada
Programs: AC 35k
Posts: 1,898
There's no way WestJet is going to rebook anyone, they will just cancel and refund because it will be cheaper - Air Canada cannot absorb all of WestJet's North American network. They may "rebook you" if you call in and wait 48 hours for someone to pick up.
And in what universe is a labour disruption "outside the carrier's control?"
And in what universe is a labour disruption "outside the carrier's control?"
Apr 24, 2023, 11:35 am
#52
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 61
There's no way WestJet is going to rebook anyone, they will just cancel and refund because it will be cheaper - Air Canada cannot absorb all of WestJet's North American network. They may "rebook you" if you call in and wait 48 hours for someone to pick up.
And in what universe is a labour disruption "outside the carrier's control?"
And in what universe is a labour disruption "outside the carrier's control?"
Apr 24, 2023, 12:20 pm
#53
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,742
It's in post #1: The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261
Last edited by Jagboi; Apr 24, 2023 at 12:28 pm
Apr 24, 2023, 12:24 pm
#54
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: YYC
Programs: BA bronze, Aeroplan peon
Posts: 4,742
From the EC261 regulations that is not the airlines decision - it is the passengers if they want to be rebooked or accept a refund. The airline can't unilaterally foist a refund on the passenger and wash their hands of the passenger. The regulations state that the passenger can accept a refund, or must be offered re-routing ‘under comparable transport conditions’ and ‘at the earliest opportunity’.
Apr 24, 2023, 3:03 pm
#55
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: AA PLT, AC E35k
Posts: 462
May 16th is the earliest day they can be legally in a strike position (they are currently coming to the end of the 60 days of arbitration, before the 21 day cooling-off period), then they will need to give 72 hours strike notice. It is unlikely they won't comply with legal requirements, so 19th May would be the first day a strike or lock-out could actually take place.
Per ALPA: "The pilots will be in a legal position to commence job action May 16; however, ALPA remains committed to the bargaining process and will make their negotiators available during the 21-day cooling-off period, which is set to expire May 13. If no agreement has been reached at that time, ALPA will be able to file a 72-hour strike notice."
I have travel on WJ booked May 17th so I'm hoping you are correct, but the wording makes me think they can give strike notice on the 13th to begin 72h later on the 16th.
Regardless - my return is booked for the following week so I will be affected regardless. Given my travel was a Delta SkyMiles redemption, in the event my flight gets canceled DL would be the one responsible for rebooking me and not WJ right?
Apr 24, 2023, 3:19 pm
#56
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: WS Nothing, AC Something, AS Gold. Too big for 737Max washrooms
Posts: 893
There's no way WestJet is going to rebook anyone, they will just cancel and refund because it will be cheaper - Air Canada cannot absorb all of WestJet's North American network. They may "rebook you" if you call in and wait 48 hours for someone to pick up.
And in what universe is a labour disruption "outside the carrier's control?"
And in what universe is a labour disruption "outside the carrier's control?"
The wording is ambiguous (to me anyway) and I think it means 16th could be the first day of actual industrial action. I have a return booked on WS for May 16 so I took the precaution of booking a fully refundable one way YHZ-YYZ-YVR on Porter - which is admittedly a roll of the dice in itself, but significantly cheaper than AC. I am working on the assumption that if WS strikes on May 16 they will just shut down and refund. They will probably rebook passengers who are outside Canada but I think domestic passengers will be left on their own - holding refunds but no booking.
In my case, if the strike either does not occur or occurs after May 16 I can get home on WS and refund my Porter ticket.
Apr 24, 2023, 5:55 pm
#57
Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 55
Apr 24, 2023, 9:46 pm
#58
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
Does the 72 hour clock start May 13th or the 16th?
Per ALPA: "The pilots will be in a legal position to commence job action May 16; however, ALPA remains committed to the bargaining process and will make their negotiators available during the 21-day cooling-off period, which is set to expire May 13. If no agreement has been reached at that time, ALPA will be able to file a 72-hour strike notice."
I have travel on WJ booked May 17th so I'm hoping you are correct, but the wording makes me think they can give strike notice on the 13th to begin 72h later on the 16th.
Regardless - my return is booked for the following week so I will be affected regardless. Given my travel was a Delta SkyMiles redemption, in the event my flight gets canceled DL would be the one responsible for rebooking me and not WJ right?
Per ALPA: "The pilots will be in a legal position to commence job action May 16; however, ALPA remains committed to the bargaining process and will make their negotiators available during the 21-day cooling-off period, which is set to expire May 13. If no agreement has been reached at that time, ALPA will be able to file a 72-hour strike notice."
I have travel on WJ booked May 17th so I'm hoping you are correct, but the wording makes me think they can give strike notice on the 13th to begin 72h later on the 16th.
Regardless - my return is booked for the following week so I will be affected regardless. Given my travel was a Delta SkyMiles redemption, in the event my flight gets canceled DL would be the one responsible for rebooking me and not WJ right?
They may decide for maximum effect to call a strike assuming it happens, to start at the beginning of the long weekend, as opposed to the earliest date.
Last edited by aerobod; Apr 24, 2023 at 10:04 pm
Apr 24, 2023, 10:01 pm
#59
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta 2M DM, Southwest A List and CP
Posts: 1,102
Of course a strike is different, but after Westjet schedule changes that made an itinerary require overnighting, Delta rebooked me on Delta metal without asking for more miles (the itinerary on DL was a lot more expensive). On the flip side, when Westjet pulled out of some Maritime destinations that Delta did not serve, then Delta said that the Delta award tickets on Westjet that I had to one of those destinations could not be honored and had to be cancelled; they could not transfer award tickets to non-Westjet/non-ST flights. So, it will be interesting to see what transpires with Delta award tickets on Westjet if there is a Westjet strike and Delta does not fly to where you need to go...
Apr 25, 2023, 12:59 am
#60
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: YVR
Programs: AA PLT, AC E35k
Posts: 462
Of course a strike is different, but after Westjet schedule changes that made an itinerary require overnighting, Delta rebooked me on Delta metal without asking for more miles (the itinerary on DL was a lot more expensive). On the flip side, when Westjet pulled out of some Maritime destinations that Delta did not serve, then Delta said that the Delta award tickets on Westjet that I had to one of those destinations could not be honored and had to be cancelled; they could not transfer award tickets to non-Westjet/non-ST flights. So, it will be interesting to see what transpires with Delta award tickets on Westjet if there is a Westjet strike and Delta does not fly to where you need to go...