YXUFlyboy

No, and no one is betting YYZ fliers would ever connect anywhere TATL least of all YYC. Way too many options at YYZ. They are going to serve with 737 MAX aircraft to people who care more about price than aircraft type.

Error 601

I understand that perspective, but I'm not convinced that is the wrong strategy from a pure survival perspective.

The death rattle of Canadian Airlines was an aggressive expansion into Asia, a partnership with American/OneWorld and an emphasis on business class if I recall correctly - all ultimately felled by the Asian financial crisis.

I don't think it is the right time for WestJet to do any of those things. It might be unambitious but it also doesn't put the airline in existential danger.

When I was pricing it out the only time there was any discernible difference in price was when one fare was flexible and the other wasn't. I didn't have a chance to take one of the cheap YYC-YYZ Dreamliner flights but I was perfectly happy with the PY on the 767 back when I was traveling to the UK regularly.

Or they might have to choose between WestJet's narrowbody, Air Canada's narrowbody - which may include the MAX, Air Transat's A321 or some European narrowbody.

FlyerJ

Maybe so.

But my frustration with this about-face is from my point of view as a customer … not as an industry observer or investor or employee.

Westjet works for me now. I like it. And I was thrilled about the direction they were going - ie the Delta partnership. They seemed to be getting close, and having a YYC-based airline with lots of nonstop routes and a solid U.S. partner — exactly what I need.

Admittedly, that’s all pretty selfish. I’m just one customer. But the “new” 2023 version of WestJet that was announced last week - based on the pretty clear language that AVH used - will be of little use to me.

(Realistically, I suppose I’d be in the same spot if they were to continue on their current course and failed. Either way, I’d be left without “my” WestJet.)

I wish them well, but “Air Transat West” or “Eurowings Canada” or “TUI Alberta” or whatever the future vision is really won’t be of any use to me. As a WestJet customer today, that’s disappointing.

Error 601

I have been something less than enamoured by what WestJet and Delta have pulled off together so far, so I'm not terribly invested in that.

I'm not working and haven't been for some time so I can't really say what destinations I might require out of YYC from that perspective, but I just don't see them atrophying to the point that major US destinations will be out of reach.

My preference for WestJet was basically the result of they were easy to do business with, something merely changing in Air Canada/United land almost invariably meant I would be on the phone for an unreasonable period of time. While WestJet was lacking in the self-help department when I did have to call them a resolution was usually swift.

Although I saw discouraging signs in early 2020 as processes became more asinine and a no-waivers, no favors mentality took hold WestJet would at least tell me to drop dead quickly. WestJet sent me a message saying that US Customs at T3 was severely delayed, I asked to switch flights to clear customs elsewhere and they said that the warning they sent me was a just courtesy message and not a waiver from change fees, even though I had a very tight connection. That just seemed dumb.

I have always been both a pragmatist and a pessimist, I expect the worst but I try to be practical about it. No decision that has been made is irreversible. This is probably the least of the distortions and disruptions we're facing in the immediate future.

ChristiCyvr

I live closer to YXX than YVR and would love to make WestJet my primary carrier. I also do exclusively business trips. The strategy change made by WestJet is really not what I am looking for. Guess I will stick to AC, but may use WS for some positioning flights.

V1213

With Air Canada significantly cutting routes at YYC next Summer, it would seem that WestJet's strategy is already bearing fruit.

It would seem that the main airline duopoly is dividing up the country, with less direct route competition as each cedes territory to the other. This is probably bad news for us as less competition will likely lead to higher prices and less options.
In particular for WestJet, the "more flights connecting the West to Eastern Canada" seems to mean "more flights connecting Calgary to Eastern Canada", so get used to transiting at YYC.

Examples of reduced route competition, and less WestJet connectivity to Eastern Canada are YXE and YQR:

• Pre-COVID
  • YYZ Air Canada 3/4 daily, WestJet ~10 weekly
  • YWG Air Canada 1 daily, WestJet 1 daily
  • YEG WestJet 2 daily
  • YYC WestJet ~6 daily, Air Canada ~3 daily
  • YVR Air Canada 3 daily, WestJet 1 daily
• Summer 2023
  • YYZ Air Canada Rouge 3 daily, WestJet ~5 weekly (all at terrible early morning/late evening times)
  • YWG WestJet ~6 weekly
  • YEG WestJet ~6 weekly
  • YYC WestJet 6 daily
  • YVR Air Canada 3 daily (including 1 Dash 8 rotation), WestJet ~3 weekly

I note that Flair attempted YQR and YXE but currently have no plans at either airport for Summer 2023. Swoop competed with Flair while they served the airports, but no longer fly to either.

At least Porter is getting ready to create some fresh competition, although it seems likely to affect Air Canada much more than WestJet.

tracon

F8 is currently operating YVR-YXE. 2X/week. 3x/week is scheduled this summer.

V1213

Porter have joined the party, doing the opposite of AC by expanding into WestJet's turf.
Edmonton was announced on Tuesday, and Calgary was announced today.

With daily route announcements so far this week, I hope we see further Western Canada routes to provide much-needed full-service airline competition.

newfbc

Vancouver was announced last week.

Ron.

cedric

YYZ-YEG/YYC/YVR are trunk AC routes. AC has not pulled back from these city pairs. This isn't specifically about competition with WS.
Much-needed airline competition?
Between Air Canada, Westjet, Flair, Swoop, Lynx, Canada Jetlines & Air Transat, these are the most competitive routes in the country.

I wouldn't call Porter more "full service" than most of the others. They don't have business class, PTVs, or meals included in most fares. I also haven't seen any announcements about lounges, which I suspect are unlikely given the lack of a premium cabin.
It's going to be a bloodbath. Business travellers are likely to continue to choose AC & WS. The others will be battling it out over a finite leisure market with unsustainable fares.

V1213

Agreed - I don't think Porter is specifically targeting WestJet, and these initial routes are trunks. I note that, while the initial schedules are clearly out-and-back flights from YYZ, the later months' schedules indicate that the aircraft will be doing more interesting things. Until Porter fills in the details, we don't know if the holes in the schedule are for West-YOW/YUL flights, or something more adventurous like intra-West (ie. YVR-YEG/YYC) flights.
While arguably no major North American is "full service" anymore (and it's a subjective label anyway), I think that Porter is competing with Air Canada and WestJet in a way that Flair, Swoop, Lynx, Canada Jetlines, and Air Transat's domestic operations don't. Porter will offer:

• Free IFE in the form of free Wifi
• Better complimentary snack service
• Free beer and wine
• The option to have a real meal
• The ability to sit next to less people (2x2 seating instead of 3x3)

Based on what's important to me, these put Porter in the tier above the budget/LCC/ULCC set, along with WestJet and Air Canada.
Agreed, and it should mean good fares on the trunk corridors. It'll also be interesting to see how much the rise of premium leisure travel may play into Porter's hands (or not).

cedric

^ Porter doesn't even include a carry on bag with their cheapest fares. That's a pure LCC move. I read somewhere that their fares on YYZ-YVR will start at $248 round trip. That's double what you can find on some of the others. That's a REALLY expensive beer.

YYCguy

Will Porter jets have a premium or business cabin?

I don’t see a Porter section on this forum. Maybe someone can start one, now that Porter will be a proper national carrier.

YXUFlyboy

Porter is all economy and you can go to the other airlines section to see the Porter thread.

tracon

PD jets premium seats will have 36" of legroom.

WS narrowbody has 36"-38" depending on type.

Depending on transcon route, PD fares $150-$300 cheaper each way for premium