WestJet YQ

Old Apr 29, 21, 3:40 pm
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WestJet YQ

Since when did WestJet add YQ to all flights? Outrageous $60 YQ on domestic round trips, devaluing the companion fares and Delta redemptions. YQ plus fees add up to over $314 on a domestic YYC-YYZ leg for two pax. Insanity!
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Old Apr 30, 21, 12:10 am
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What is the YQ? Fuel Surchharge?

I pulled up a YXUYYZ in June and no YQ code on fare calculation. More info?
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Old Apr 30, 21, 6:47 pm
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Originally Posted by Fisch View Post
What is the YQ? Fuel Surchharge?

I pulled up a YXUYYZ in June and no YQ code on fare calculation. More info?
It shows as "Other ATC charges" but if you use ITA Matrix you will see Carrier Surcharge (YQ) for WS flights.
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Old Apr 30, 21, 10:04 pm
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Originally Posted by YXUFlyboy View Post
It shows as "Other ATC charges" but if you use ITA Matrix you will see Carrier Surcharge (YQ) for WS flights.
Gotcha. On that sector (YXUYYZ) WS site lists that $16 as "Other ATC"

That said, while WS has YQ for $16, and AC does not, both are selling for the exact same $219.36 all in. If WS breaks it out as YQ and AC does not, I don't see a material impact. One builds it into the fare, one breaks it out. I do know WS likes to take every opportunity to publicly demonstrate the severely onerous tax and fee regime under which Canadian carriers must compete. This may be just that.
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Old May 1, 21, 9:56 am
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I do remember last year they adjusted the surcharge in response to NavCanada fees also increasing.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/westjet-...elay-1.1487903
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Old May 1, 21, 9:58 am
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Originally Posted by cirrusdragoon View Post
I do remember last year they adjusted the surcharge in response to NavCanada fees also increasing.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/westjet-...elay-1.1487903
Which is a fake surcharge.
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Old May 1, 21, 10:37 am
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith View Post
Which is a fake surcharge.
Well , given financial hardships the industry is facing, I cannot blame industry to pass on expenses to the consumer. Any company can add on fees as they like. Much like how some metropolitan hotels have “resort fees” when its not even a resort . Hair salons have added covid fee surcharges even. It is a sign of the times, its not necessarily loved by the consumer , but I would rather that business be alive . https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...b9f_story.html
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Old May 1, 21, 11:06 am
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Originally Posted by cirrusdragoon View Post
Well , given financial hardships the industry is facing, I cannot blame industry to pass on expenses to the consumer. Any company can add on fees as they like. Much like how some metropolitan hotels have “resort fees” when its not even a resort . Hair salons have added covid fee surcharges even. It is a sign of the times, its not necessarily loved by the consumer , but I would rather that business be alive . https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...b9f_story.html
You don't understand. If WS wants to increase its fares to reflect increased costs, that's fine.

Styling NAVCAN as a surcharge, however, is a deceptive practice. Unlike AIFs, ATSC, and many foreign fees/taxes (e.g. US agriculture, UK APD, etc), there is no per-person NAVCAN charge. Airlines pay NAVCAN based on weight of the aircraft and distance flown (here's NAVCAN's calculator that will tell you how much it costs). The cost to the airline is the same whether the plane is full or has one passenger, and there is no pass-through of any funds collected through this surcharge.

There is no more logic or justification for there being a NAVCAN surcharge than there is for a landing fee surcharge, a gate lease surcharge, or a pilot surcharge.

If WS is adding this fake surcharge to companion and award tickets under the guise that it's a 3rd party surcharge, it's flat out deceitful.
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Old May 1, 21, 11:30 am
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith View Post
You don't understand. If WS wants to increase its fares to reflect increased costs, that's fine.

Styling NAVCAN as a surcharge, however, is a deceptive practice. Unlike AIFs, ATSC, and many foreign fees/taxes (e.g. US agriculture, UK APD, etc), there is no per-person NAVCAN charge. Airlines pay NAVCAN based on weight of the aircraft and distance flown (here's NAVCAN's calculator that will tell you how much it costs). The cost to the airline is the same whether the plane is full or has one passenger, and there is no pass-through of any funds collected through this surcharge.

There is no more logic or justification for there being a NAVCAN surcharge than there is for a landing fee surcharge, a gate lease surcharge, or a pilot surcharge.

If WS is adding this fake surcharge to companion and award tickets under the guise that it's a 3rd party surcharge, it's flat out deceitful.
A company deserves the right to pass on any increased business cost to the consumer. You are not being forced to book a ticket. Fare increases and/or additional surcharges are never a popular move. It would be easy to place blame on the airlines or NAV CANADA for the situation. However, the problem is not that simple.

What difference does it make if a company decides to take a business expense , make it transparent and create a surcharge to help pay for it vs just increasing ticket prices ? Businesses are already doing that everywhere with covid-19. Again no one is forcing you to buy a plane ticket and travel.

I agree to just disagree with you.
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Old May 1, 21, 1:23 pm
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Originally Posted by cirrusdragoon View Post
What difference does it make if a company decides to take a business expense , make it transparent and create a surcharge to help pay for it vs just increasing ticket prices ? Businesses are already doing that everywhere with covid-19. Again no one is forcing you to buy a plane ticket and travel.
It's not at all transparent to create a surcharge that has no relation to the actual cost. It's the opposite of transparent; it's misleading, and always has been (the airlines have been doing this since NAVCAN was first privatized, so it's not new).

Nor is WS unique - PD also refers to a "NAV surcharge".

But AC renamed this charge a long time ago (because it was misleading and inappropriate) and has recently scrapped it for award tickets. Meanwhile, Flair (which is embarking on a large expansion), does not use this deceptive practice at all: there's the fare, and then there are true 3rd party charges and fees.

So if WS is now charging this fake surcharge in places where it wasn't before, it's not only behaving badly (dishonest business practices), it's going against the current trend in the Canadian air travel market.
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Old May 1, 21, 1:41 pm
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith View Post
It's not at all transparent to create a surcharge that has no relation to the actual cost. It's the opposite of transparent; it's misleading, and always has been (the airlines have been doing this since NAVCAN was first privatized, so it's not new).

Nor is WS unique - PD also refers to a "NAV surcharge".

But AC renamed this charge a long time ago (because it was misleading and inappropriate) and has recently scrapped it for award tickets. Meanwhile, Flair (which is embarking on a large expansion), does not use this deceptive practice at all: there's the fare, and then there are true 3rd party charges and fees.

So if WS is now charging this fake surcharge in places where it wasn't before, it's not only behaving badly (dishonest business practices), it's going against the current trend in the Canadian air travel market.
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Passing on the cost of nav canada fees is not dishonest. That is absolute rubbish. The navcanada costs went up and WS has passed the increased cost onto consumers . Nothing wrong with that. next….
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Last edited by cirrusdragoon; May 1, 21 at 1:52 pm
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Old May 1, 21, 5:16 pm
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Prior to the creation of NavCanada, tickets had the "Air Transportation Tax" added to the total price.
The formula at the time was 7%+$10 to a maximum of $50 of the base fare.

This tax covered about 3/4 of the cost of running the air navigation system at the time.
The rest was covered by the taxpayer.

I don't agree that ATC or any other charges should be a seperate line item on a ticket.
I suppose historicaly speaking the ATC charge has "always" been there.
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Old May 1, 21, 8:09 pm
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Originally Posted by Fisch View Post
Gotcha. On that sector (YXUYYZ) WS site lists that $16 as "Other ATC"

That said, while WS has YQ for $16, and AC does not, both are selling for the exact same $219.36 all in. If WS breaks it out as YQ and AC does not, I don't see a material impact. One builds it into the fare, one breaks it out. I do know WS likes to take every opportunity to publicly demonstrate the severely onerous tax and fee regime under which Canadian carriers must compete. This may be just that.
It may make no difference if you pay cash, but if you’re using a companion fare that $16 is a surcharge and now you’re paying $119 plus that $16. If you want to use WJD to
cover your fare you can’t pay for that $16, it’s a surcharge. If you’re booking using SkyMiles you used to pay the miles and allow taxes, now every booking YYC-YXU is an extra $16 each way. These are called scam charges for a reason as they always require a cash outlay.

WS is devaluing their program even more - it’s disingenuous to say a companion fare is just $119 when they know the surcharge will be extra. And why collect WSD if I can’t pay for the surcharge with them? It’s not a real tax, it’s WestJets charge!

There is a reason why AC eliminated these.

Last edited by YXUFlyboy; May 1, 21 at 8:15 pm
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Old May 1, 21, 9:37 pm
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Originally Posted by cirrusdragoon View Post
Passing on the cost of nav canada fees is not dishonest. That is absolute rubbish. The navcanada costs went up and WS has passed the increased cost onto consumers . Nothing wrong with that. next….
No one is disputing that NAVCAN fees have gone up.

But it's disingenuous to charge any surcharge for something that bears little relation to the surcharge - whether I'm on a full flight and the NAVCAN charge divided by the number of passengers = $4 or I'm on a lightly loaded flight where NAVCAN charge / # of pax = $20, WS charges the same amount.

And it's especially disingenuous to make that charge look like a 3rd party fee when it's not. That's also exactly the type of underhanded behaviour that WS has historically loved to criticize AC for, when AC has just done the exact opposite and removed this fake surcharge from award tickets.
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Old May 2, 21, 1:28 am
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Originally Posted by cirrusdragoon View Post
Passing on the cost of nav canada fees is not dishonest. That is absolute rubbish. The navcanada costs went up and WS has passed the increased cost onto consumers . Nothing wrong with that. next….
These fees/tax are things the airline collects on behalf of a government agency and have no say in its rate. It is silly to treat this as a tax, but if that is where WS is going then after the flight lands they should look at the type of aircraft, and routing and determine what the actual NAV Canada rate is then divide by the number of passengers on the aircraft. Then issue each passenger with a credit or invoice for the difference.

They will never do that because it is not a fee they are collecting on behalf of someone else. It a cost of doing business and is silly to be called out this way.
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