hoipolloi

Nope

hoipolloi

It also says it right here in the International/transborder tariff that refunds will be provided, even for force majeure:
https://www.westjet.com/en-us/about-...sborder-tariff


Rule 75, section C.3

aerobod

Looks like the webmaster has given you false hope there, that is an old version of the tariff from 24 May 2018. The current tariff published on 6 Oct 2019 is in the original link (https://www.westjet.com/assets/wj-we...us)-tariff.pdf). This will be the tariff currently filed with the CTA and DOT, which excludes refunds for force majeure.

In terms of the fact that they have an old tariff posted on the website, that is legally covered by the disclaimer statement in this link: https://www.westjet.com/en-us/about-us/legal/terms-use

cedric

This is an opinion, not fact.

hoipolloi

There is matter to argue that the client was presented with the old tariff (not the client's fault, how can they know that the tariff is outdated), plus Francophone speakers can argue that the French tariff includes Force Majeure in rule 75. There's no version of the French tariff that excludes Force Majeure.


Why are you guys trying to protect Westjet and taking its side? I'm sensing some bias/shilling here. I'm posting here to get people to fight for their refunds.

Even if Westjet's terms were 100% lawsuit-proof, don't you think the right and fair things to do towards customers is to issue refunds ?

aerobod

You should ask WestJet for the current one (the PDF version of the legal one, as that is the accurate filed one), as the French one is also out of date at 7 Jun 2018. I’m not sure if there is any obligation to file with the CTA in both languages, as the CTA states that the tariffs on airline sites may not be available in both English and French. I would expect the most up-to-date English document is the reference document for any litigation.

The latest tariff is available on their website and has a later date than the others, that will be the one that the CTA has a current copy of.

hoipolloi

Very easy to say that one should ask Westjet for the most up to date tariff. No customer can reasonably know that the one online is outdated. This is not a dealing between two big firms with lawyers on the payroll. This is between a resourceful corporation and not-so-resourceful individual consumer that doesn't have as much resources.


Even if Westjet's terms were 100% lawsuit-proof (I very much doubt it can stand in Quebec courts who will protect the rights of Francophones to have updated terms in their native language, and are not sympathetic to one-sided arbitrary corporate terms, especially from non-QC based corps),

don't you think the right and fair things to do towards customers is to issue refunds ?


Again, I think you're trying to protect Westjet. You seem to have strong ties to Westjet from what I saw in posting histroy (lots of Westjet scoops). You're not vouching for the consumers.

aerobod

Not trying to protect WestJet. Just providing accurate information so that people don’t get their hopes up in expecting a refund when contractually non is due - feel free to take them to court, but I wouldn’t bother if it was me, I travel enough to use flight credits and value my time a lot more than fretting over a court case.

It could be argued that those who purchased a fully refundable ticket at higher cost would be badly treated if everyone who bought a non-refundable ticket as it was cheaper, also got a full refund as opposed to full credit. Best to buy a Flex ticket if you expect a refund instead of a credit.

You should also look at jurisdiction in your contract with WestJet, I think you will find contractually any litigation will be in Alberta by Alberta law, not Quebec.

hoipolloi

There you go. You only view your situation as a frequent OPM flyer and are not sympathetic to the average traveler who doesn't fly as often or cannot afford flex tickets.

We are talking about getting refunds for services not rendered as Westjet is cancelling the flights, not a general case of people buying non-refundable flights and asking for a refund just because they no linger want to travel.

You are presenting Westjet's position/opinion and terms as the unshakable truth, but unless challenged in court, by media or regulators, you can never be sure


Also, class action already filed against Air Canada and Air Transat in Quebec (because that what most people fly here). I expect one against Westjet to be stated shortly as well .

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/500...jPqrB3RM2ltu3c


airlines have settled for matters that seemed initially very much in their favour. Like Air Canada settling with DrunkCargo when he sued them after Air Canada suspended his elite status, even if the terms say Air Canada can do it at its own discretion for any reason

aerobod

As I said, take them to court or get a class action suit going, but P37 in the tariff indicates any dispute relative to your contract covered by the tariff will be litigated in Calgary, Alberta. Probably 5 to 10 years for a class action suit to reach court going by the Canadian court system wait times at the moment. Small claims court in Alberta may be possible, but also could take a while. If you planned to fly for pleasure before the virus crisis, then why not after? If it was for business, then write it off.

Hopefully your line of business or your investments won’t be affected nearly as much by the COVID-19 pandemic as those who work for the airlines.

hoipolloi

That jurisdiction clause won't stand in Quebec courts if the consumer resides in Quebec:
https://www.erudit.org/en/journals/m...051ar/#re1no16
I love Quebec's determination to protect individuals against powerful/resourceful corporation one-sided terms and conditions

aerobod

Im sure it will be slow in any jurisdiction. I do find Quebec is more consumer orientated, but generally bureaucratic for any government service and inefficient in dealing with small enterprises, generally leading to suppression of entrepreneurship. Generally reflects in the high taxation and low disposable incomes compared with Alberta, Ontario and B.C.

hoipolloi

It's a question of principle. If everyone gives up because their claim/lawsuit takes too long of a time to get sorted, things will never change and airlines will keep getting away with their consumer-unfriendly practices.

A class action lawsuit or multiple small claims court lawsuits may take a long time but they will make a difference in the end.

taupo

My idea is self serving whilst also trying to be fair to Westjet.
I have a great deal of empathy for the airlines in all this. The tickets we bought maybe for Premium service but are not fully refundable per the fare rules at time of booking. The airlines and their staff are suffering far more than the inconvenience we have as customers.

In our situation and I'm sure the 1,000's of others, the trip we booked with five people was to a specific destination (MCO) for a specific event (Tropical Rugby 7's tourney). Five individual credits are a nuisance.
How about a pooled credit by address? That way the more frequent flyer could use the credit and would end being far less segments flown. Likely business class to LGW.

Westjet like all airlines is in a fecal situation with no winners. Totally understand them not wanting to give refunds, so instead, keep the money and for more a consumer friendly travel credit.

hoipolloi

yeah! I would be happy if Westjet issued e-gift cards as a compromise between cash refunds and inflexible travel credits. gift cards are transferrable, combinable, don't expire, and retain residual value if used for a flight of lower value.