"We Don't Overbook" Ad
Oct 22, 2019, 8:16 pm
#17
formerly BackSlash3
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: YYZ Realistically, YKZ Aspirationally
Programs: AC P25, Marriott Gold, IHG Diamond AMB
Posts: 452
Really good question. Especially when so much of the 'product' that people are buying is made up of artificial constructs (i.e. rules, policies and procedures tied to different fare types) rather than tangible differences.
Every consumer understands the "you get what you pay for" when it comes to the hard product -- the difference between J and Y, or even the difference between regular Y seating and extra-legroom Y seating. But when so much of WestJet's customer experience (like many airlines) is now dictated by rules in a tariff that most consumers don't see or understand -- I fear that a lot of WS's traditional customer base is going to start to feel like they're cattle, too.
I think a lot of WestJet's current brand reputation is frankly based on what they used to be: casual, informal, and nice folks who'd try to help out leisure customers -- who largely tended to be infrequent and uninformed travellers. Now, IMO, those same interactions are much more focused on rule enforcement and fee collection, with the level of 'helpfulness' determined largely by the fare paid (even when the actual, underlying "product" that was purchased appears identical). I'm not opposed to what WestJet is becoming -- but I do think some of their customer base will see a disconnect between this ad campaign and the real/current WestJet.
Every consumer understands the "you get what you pay for" when it comes to the hard product -- the difference between J and Y, or even the difference between regular Y seating and extra-legroom Y seating. But when so much of WestJet's customer experience (like many airlines) is now dictated by rules in a tariff that most consumers don't see or understand -- I fear that a lot of WS's traditional customer base is going to start to feel like they're cattle, too.
I think a lot of WestJet's current brand reputation is frankly based on what they used to be: casual, informal, and nice folks who'd try to help out leisure customers -- who largely tended to be infrequent and uninformed travellers. Now, IMO, those same interactions are much more focused on rule enforcement and fee collection, with the level of 'helpfulness' determined largely by the fare paid (even when the actual, underlying "product" that was purchased appears identical). I'm not opposed to what WestJet is becoming -- but I do think some of their customer base will see a disconnect between this ad campaign and the real/current WestJet.
Oct 23, 2019, 11:37 am
#19
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Copenhagen
Programs: skyteam
Posts: 571
a flight because of overbooking , that feeling of being handled like you were a barn animal just herded to another queue for rebooking.
Oct 23, 2019, 3:34 pm
#21
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Copenhagen
Programs: skyteam
Posts: 571
Except for the fact that overbooking in normal terms means overselling a flight for commercial profits. The advert is aimed at that, and our human minds are free to wander amongst all the infinite other possibilities.
Oct 23, 2019, 4:33 pm
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: WS Nothing, AC Something, AS Gold. Too big for 737Max washrooms
Posts: 893
Oct 23, 2019, 6:06 pm
#23
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,359
Oct 25, 2019, 1:34 pm
#24
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
It really is a matter of the airline business being about creating discomfort in the system to cause passengers to pay to avoid said discomfort. I do agree that when it comes to hard product people understand that you get what you pay for but the limits of that are Y versus J. Mainstream passengers don't understand opportunity cost versus incremental revenue (inciting you to pay for next time) the way they understand spoiling inventory (that seat is perferable to mine and it's going out empty for no good reason).
The airline can change your flight time, but you can not.
The airline is late having its pilots stuck in traffic, that is the passengers. Your late getting to the airline it is your problem.
The airline is all happy to say your not buying a seat on specific flight and it reserves the right to change aircraft type, flight times, operator etc., but when they cancel a flight they are not willing to move you to the next flight and expect someone to spend days waiting it.
The problem is the non-reciprocal nature of the terms and conditions in these agreements. WestJet use to be much more reasonable, however they have been worse that AC in many ways. There swoop branded flights are even worse.
Oct 25, 2019, 5:13 pm
#25
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
I would disagree, the mainstream passenger does not understand onside business arrangements. With a basic fare everything is one side.
The airline can change your flight time, but you can not.
The airline is late having its pilots stuck in traffic, that is the passengers. Your late getting to the airline it is your problem.
The airline is all happy to say your not buying a seat on specific flight and it reserves the right to change aircraft type, flight times, operator etc., but when they cancel a flight they are not willing to move you to the next flight and expect someone to spend days waiting it.
The problem is the non-reciprocal nature of the terms and conditions in these agreements. WestJet use to be much more reasonable, however they have been worse that AC in many ways. There swoop branded flights are even worse.
The airline can change your flight time, but you can not.
The airline is late having its pilots stuck in traffic, that is the passengers. Your late getting to the airline it is your problem.
The airline is all happy to say your not buying a seat on specific flight and it reserves the right to change aircraft type, flight times, operator etc., but when they cancel a flight they are not willing to move you to the next flight and expect someone to spend days waiting it.
The problem is the non-reciprocal nature of the terms and conditions in these agreements. WestJet use to be much more reasonable, however they have been worse that AC in many ways. There swoop branded flights are even worse.
Oct 25, 2019, 5:28 pm
#26
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
The passenger can make the relationship fundamentally the same as it was before the Basic fare became available by buying the Econo fare instead. The Basic fare builds in this one-sided relationship by discounting the price, giving those "rights" back would make it uneconomic to offer the Basic fare, so the only alternative would be to stop offering the fare and recover the lost revenue from the other tickets by increasing their price, due to the decreased number of people travelling.
That make it fairly clear these are not deeply discounted tickets but just the airline playing games.
For an airline that does not over-book, the decreased number of people traveling argument also make little sense since they seats will likely go out empty.
Oct 25, 2019, 7:13 pm
#27
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
I don't buy the economic argument. When you look at a route that has a lot of flights such as YVR-YYZ you can easily find flights one hour apart on basically the same aircraft where the "Basic" fare is quite a bit more than the Econo fare.
That make it fairly clear these are not deeply discounted tickets but just the airline playing games.
For an airline that does not over-book, the decreased number of people traveling argument also make little sense since they seats will likely go out empty.
That make it fairly clear these are not deeply discounted tickets but just the airline playing games.
For an airline that does not over-book, the decreased number of people traveling argument also make little sense since they seats will likely go out empty.
i can assure you that every ticket at WestJet has a price that is very deliberately set and targets are monitored continually, as my IT data team (before I retired from WestJet) managed the databases and many of the tools used by the business Revenue Management team and the Operations Research team also reported to me for a number of years.
There are very good reasons why different products are offered and prices can vary a lot, even in the same day, on a given route, but it isn’t obvious to those who haven’t spent significant time working with airline ticket pricing.
Oct 25, 2019, 8:59 pm
#28
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YVR
Programs: Erstwhile Accidental AC E35K
Posts: 2,912
”If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with [BS].” - W.C. Fields
Oct 25, 2019, 10:19 pm
#30
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Vancouver
Programs: Aeroplan, Mileage Plus, WestJet Gold, AMEX Plat
Posts: 2,026
There are no “playing games” in airline ticket pricing. It is hard analytics with some of the most complex operations research modelling based on vast amounts of historic data merged with market predictions, economic pointers and competitor analysis.
i can assure you that every ticket at WestJet has a price that is very deliberately set and targets are monitored continually, as my IT data team (before I retired from WestJet) managed the databases and many of the tools used by the business Revenue Management team and the Operations Research team also reported to me for a number of years.
There are very good reasons why different products are offered and prices can vary a lot, even in the same day, on a given route, but it isn’t obvious to those who haven’t spent significant time working with airline ticket pricing.
i can assure you that every ticket at WestJet has a price that is very deliberately set and targets are monitored continually, as my IT data team (before I retired from WestJet) managed the databases and many of the tools used by the business Revenue Management team and the Operations Research team also reported to me for a number of years.
There are very good reasons why different products are offered and prices can vary a lot, even in the same day, on a given route, but it isn’t obvious to those who haven’t spent significant time working with airline ticket pricing.
Where I think WestJet (and especially their Swoop banner) cross the line is by playing where they stand people of days and try to follow the rules with no regard for common sense. That is what the press is all over them for.
I this little add they airline that has cows as passengers has the better dressed staff that are indifferent to the cow customers and walk away when they should be serving their customer. While at the same time they try to show WestJet as the welcoming and caring airline. Historically that was the case.
For the record I do around 30-40 round trips a year. One or two to Europe a year the rest being an even split between Canada and US. In my view, Alaska is great, Delta second followed by WestJet and AC tied. I have seen WestJet become less accommodating and slipping behind AC. But as a business traveler perhaps I am not their target market. I sometimes end up in Basic not by choice, but because someone else does the booking and it is not that obvious what fare code your going into on some of the online travel agency sites. The not over booking strategy is a positive.