newfbc

Flair has announced they're pulling out of Abbotsford (continuing at YVR).. I guess Swoop/Westjet won that round.

Ron.

Heffeh41

Flair has added destinations in Eastern Canada like Ottawa. I wonder if Swoop will follow.

tcook052

https://edmontonjournal.com/business...-f18b625bc953/

Calgary-based ultra-low-cost airline Swoop will be laying off 78 employees next month, nearly half from Edmonton.

Larissa Mark, a spokeswoman for Swoop, said in an email Thursday 33 employees in Edmonton and 45 in Hamilton, Ont., received involuntary reduction notifications effective May 1 as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Fiordland

Surprising they are keeping Swoop operating at all vrs collapsing the company into WestJet.

tcook052

Would having Swoop around be a benefit once certain routes are reinstated?

What would the write-down be from winding up the LCC?

Fiordland

Both good questions.

Perhaps I am bad one to judge as I don't understand why anyone would every want to fly Swoop or Flair more than once. My one flight with Flair convinced me I don't want to be here.

There is a lot of overhead in keeping a separate brand, reservation system, customer service team and in-flight team trained. When you only have one or two aircraft under the banner you have to ask what is the point.

YYCguy

How many aircraft does Flair own/lease? I bet it’s trying to be Westjet (when Westjet was just in its infancy) 2.0!

Fiordland

Flair is a weird airline. They use to be mostly a charter airline flying working in and out of the oil patch and the odd flight for a tour company into a sun destination. Then someone decided to run it as a discount airline. I had this weird situation of needing to fly from Vancouver to Edmonton and because of timing and both AC and WS being overbooked they were the only option. It was an 737-400. I booked and pre-paid for some package they offered the combined a printed boarding pass and a checked bag.

At the check-in counter the person guarding the queue put up a lot of resistance to me not having checked in online because I would be "charged" if I approached the drop off within a boarding pass in hand and wanted to save me the fee. She finally looked at my ticket and was surprised it included a printed boarding pass. They had great difficulty topdressing the fee. I was then allowed to go into the empty line. At the gate it was a constant stream of announcements on how to save money by paying for the carry on before boarding started because it would cost more a few minutes later. That would have been ok, it were not for the flight being an hour late proving more time for the same announcements. The on board announcements were all about the buy on board and how to save money on this combo or that. However if you actually try to buy anything you discover they only accept credit cards and the credit card reader does not work so despite the endless announcements they can't actually sell you anything.

I flew WS in the early days, Flair is nothing like the early WS or even Rouge. WS usually had their act together. When WS screwed up (and they did that early on) the staff understood what happened, would apologies and try to make things right. This ultra low cost airlines have a major problem with service recovery. It is almost like they don't train there staff in any customer service skills. I am fearful of entering any aircraft with a Swoop logo on it.

Adam Smith

Flair seems to be trying to compete more and more with WS and AC, e.g. running flights on routes like YYC-YVR. WS might on occasion use Swoop to replace mainline, but its job is more about opening new markets. So it's not likely that Swoop would fly, say, YEG-YOW, but if WS sees demand from YOW to somewhere in Mexico that can't be properly served by mainline, you could see Swoop. Look out also for destinations that have alternate, lower-cost airports. For instance, could swoop fly YOW-SFB (secondary Orlando-area airport)? Mainline already flies YOW-MCO, but that's not so different from Phoenix, where mainline flies YEG-PHX and Swoop flies YEG-AZA.

What's very likely is that you won't see swoop at YYZ or YUL because the fees are simply too high. YYC too.

In the short term, I don't think anyone wants to make rash decisions. Everything is ugly for every airline right now. In the medium term, a ULCC might be well positioned to capture market share as people become even more price-sensitive.

Hard to say, but it would be a non-cash charge, simply recognizing that any investments already made in the Swoop brand, website, etc have no value. Write-downs shouldn't normally impact decision-making, although unfortunately they do more than they should, but at a company owned by private equity, that would likely not be an important consideration. Those guys aren't worried about meeting stock market expectations for the next quarter or how an impairment charge might impact the bonus pool.

I don't think your bad experience with Flair is necessarily representative of the ULCC experience. It just sounds like a badly run airline. The well-run ULCCs like Ryanair, easyJet, Jetstar, etc are normally very organized and efficient at extracting cash from passengers

There are many of us who find that model very unappealing, but there are lots of people out there who find the low prices very attractive, and who are willing to put up with all the fees and nonsense. Remember that if you have FF status with any airline, you are not Swoop's target market. Not that they wouldn't mind taking your cash from time to time, but their value proposition is oriented towards people who have never flown or fly very rarely, and they're not trying to attract people like us. The goal has been more about generating brand-new traffic, by making it more affordable to fly, than cannibalizing from WS mainline, AC, TS, etc.

tracon

Swoop summer schedule and network changes.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29...twork-changes/

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...adian-network/

Fiordland

Perhaps this is just my biased view as someone who does not like Swoop and Flair. But the routes they are operating all appear to be Hamilton or Abbotsford based. Are these route successful because of the Swoop business model or are the successful because they are the only game in town.

Abbotsford is a fairly convenient airport for most people south of the fraser or in the Fraser Valley. That is what a population of what over 750,000 people. Hamilton has its catchment area where it is more convenient than Pearson. Likely more leisure travel given the lack of connection and distance from the central business area.

Are these mostly passengers who are driving from outside the local airport catchment area to get a cheap flight or are they local passengers that WestJet would have likely picked up with a mainline branded service anyway?

aerobod

From stats before COVID-19, these are people who drive to get a cheap flight that is not possible at that same price (for the airline not to lose money on it) from the major airports due to the much higher operating costs.

newfbc

Swoop has delayed the launch in YYT.. and of course, are not giving refunds for cancelled flights. If they're not flying there, how are people supposed to use a credit?!

Ron.

tracon

....seeking new airport partners in North America, Central America and the Caribbean.

....is looking for innovative proposals from airports that “understand providing value to travelers through fair fares, and low fees creates demand as well as the importance of travel and tourism in stimulating economic recovery.


https://www.routesonline.com/news/29...port-partners/

tracon

Interview with Swoop's head of commercial Bert van der Stege

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29...covid-future-/