Frequentlander

I hope they don't take 800s from the mainline. For business travellers, their schedule is sparse enough as it is without removing aircraft just to kill off New Leaf.

As for the competition bureau....would they even pay attention? Especially if the WS Lite is on new routes. They might say something (but not much) if the new routes are demonstrably predatory, i.e. if WS Lite match city pairs and times with a ULCC startup.

As with other posters, I was hoping they were going to focus on expanding Encore and wide body fleets. I need to get to smaller centres and in many cases AC has a monopoly or near monopoly (I'm looking at you YSJ and YSB). More reliable service to LGW would also be a positive move.

CanuckFlyHigh

That is another very good thought...

Symmetre

If that were the case, why aren’t bundled flight/hotel/car vacation packages a central element on its website and in its advertising, as they are for Transat and even AC Vacations? They aren’t - the focus at rouge remains on air travel alone.

Rouge is very much a ULCC and was created specifically as such - but only for its owners. Rouge lets AC operate the routes at half the labour cost as mainline, while cramming more bums in its sardine can seats. But rouge is NOT ULCC for consumers, who receive a markedly lower class or service in both the hard and soft product while paying the identical retail ticket price that AC charges for mainline on the same routes.


Interesting comment coming from an AC staffer, since AC has some of the highest user fees and surcharges in the industry. I wouldn't throw too many stones in that glass house, if I were you.

james dean

cur

flights to lax. ac realized rouging those premium pax was a bad idea but i wouldn't be surprised if ws did.

but also i've seen james brown fly on ws laxyyc, and lots of financially off celebs fly on wn, eh who knows.

i also wonder if canadians are ready for true ulcc like ryanair or spirit. cbc and customers would be in mutiny if a flight were cancelled due weather/crew at the end of the day and pax were on their own for the night.

Fiordland

Clearly your not into United new level of service.

I think we need some regulations to set minimum levels of service. The CBC Marketplace does a good job of discrediting poor practice but it would be good if airlines were held accountable for having a reasonable backup plan should they not be able to fly.

cur

noooooooooo, i want airfare to get cheaper in this country, not more expensive. this is not the government's place.

Fiordland

Some of the regulations I would look for:

- If you cancel a flight or bump a passenger off a flight you only operate two or three times a week it is not acceptable for the passenger to wait until the next open seat on your airline. The airline make a commitment to get them there so it should. I would give the airline a little bit of wiggle room for things outside of its control.

- If you are going to charge for drinks you have to supply at a minimum water at no cost.

- If you are going to charge for carry on baggage it must be made clear before booking the flight (including on Expedia or other third-party sites) and not in the fine print.

cur

-fully agree with eu261 level regulations. cash for delays.

-bring your own bottle and unless you're at yyc international, use a water fountain.

-spirit and ryanair make these fees abundantly clear on their website before booking. with ota this is in the terms and conditions/"fine print".

why government needs to protect consumers from themselves beats me. the rules against bait and switch and deceptive marketing are already there. there are enough rules in canada and things are expensive enough.

i have a sense canada will never have an ulcc because people feel like they're getting nickle and dimed for ancillary services like checked bags, beverages, and airport printed boarding passes on a $70 roundtrip (+$80 in taxes) yycyvr

FlyerJ

Dear WestJet,

About that new ULCC.

Please, oh please, do not follow the path of Rouge. I’m a former Air Canada customer who – when Rouged – left Air Canada. Angrily. I used to do anything in my power to fly AC or Star Alliance and enjoyed many years of Elite and SuperElite status with them. They treated me well, and their rewards program funded lots of great vacations for me. That all changed when they first Rouged me.

I’m a 6’4” tall business traveler who also loves to take my family on frequent trips. (My kids are pretty much frequent fliers, too.) But none of us fly AC much these days because the Rouge 29” seat pitch experience – for me – is akin to being physically assaulted. I simply don’t fit, and the experience is pretty nasty. So now I never fly Rouge, and only rarely fly mainline AC. (Why would I bother to accumulate Aeroplan points when my ‘reward’ is going to be awful leisure travel on their version of a ULCC?)

The other guys may have Rouged only what they consider to be leisure routes, initially claiming that they were competing with Sunwing and Transat. But (1) their “leisure” routes included some of my business routes (places like LAX, PHX, LAS), and (2) if my leisure travel is downgraded to a comparatively awful experience, I simply have no interest in flying business routes with that carriers mainline service either. And (3), they made it so that the only way to fly with them to most vacation destinations was to fly on Rouge. If it's a forced choice between ULCC or go to the competition, I'll take the competition thanks.

Their loss was your gain. Thanks to Rouge, I switched much of my flying to WestJet, and my wife and I gave up my TD Aeroplan Visa cards in favour of RBC WestJet cards. I beg you, do not follow the same path that AC went down.

My requests of you as you plan and launch this ULCC:

• Don’t use your ULCC to downgrade existing WestJet routes. Make it really and truly function as a separate airline. Put it on new routes. Put it on routes that WestJet already serves (but while keeping WestJet service, too). But don’t you dare downgrade any of your existing services. AC made that mistake, and it angered and inconvenienced and p***ed off a lot of their customers.
  
  
• But if you do decide to downgrade existing routes, don’t make 'operating carrier' changes to mainline WS flights that are already published and scheduled. (Again, AC made that mistake when they started Rouging routes.) Heck, I already have some 2018 travel booked with you. And I booked it with you for a reason. Do not even think about changing any flights already in your schedule from WestJet to ULCC. People who already chose you don’t want to fly that route on a ULCC. Their plans (like one pre-paid, unchangeable vacation accommodation that I have) are costly or impossible to alter. Don’t mess with what I already have booked.
  
  
• Don’t assume that leisure, sun destination traveler = el cheapo traveler. If I go on vacation, I want a great experience for me and my family. Personally, I’d never consider a ULCC for my vacations, because I value my kneecaps, my back, and service. I’m quite certain that many, many of your other customers would feel the same way. Yes, I absolutely know there are lots and lots of folks who just don’t care – and are happy with a Sunwing or Allegiant or Spirit kind of experience. But not me. And do not assume that all of your customers would be OK with that.

I am rooting for WestJet. I want you to do well, and I hope this new carrier-within-a-carrier gives you a big boost. But this is not an opportunity for you to take away what your customers already have, and what they value with you. Please use this as a way to get into a brand new market and gain new customers, not to reduce the cost per seat mile with your already-existing and currently-happy customers.

Regards,
FlyerJ

Arthurrs

I'm with you 100%! I completely abandoned Air Canada because of Rouge, I don't want a repeat of that with WestJet.

I look back at my recent trip to Hawaii with my wife for March break, I had no hesitation paying $2000 per seat for plus on your 767, the service was outstanding, the seats comfortable, looking forward to our next trip back! If this becomes a ULCC only route, then I'm taking my business elsewhere.

WR Cage

In the next 14 months WS get 10 737max aircraft. We all ready know these aircraft will come with ovens and full service galley's. I suspect that WS could make a play for the max aircraft to come factory direct with a true premium economy product, 2X2 seating that is nearly identical to the 763 WS Plus seat.

I would put the max aircraft on the major transcon routes YYZ to YVR, YYC, YEG to provide a premium product on this segment. Move the 10 738ng over to the ULCC operation to compete with FlyToo (enerjet) out of YYC and NewLeaf out of YEG, YWG, and YHM/YYZ.

Altaflyer

WS is already no frills. Compare the on board service to AC and there is just no comparison.

WR Cage

The current WS model is fine for the existing competition. However the new entrants that are coming (FlyToo, Newleaf, Jetlines) have a very different revenue model that does not fit well with the current WS services.

At a minimum the flights that WS is deploying to compete with NewLeaf will get "tealed". I'm looking at you YHM and AZA.

The airport is where the current WS model breaks down. They cannot separate AZA from PHX. A Teal ULCC fixes this problem. Pax flying to AZA will have the same airport experience as NewLeaf: mandatory self service kiosk and self bag drop, print BP at home, use an app to pay for bag fees, onboard carryon is pay per bag, take out your wallet to speak to a WestJetter. Onboard drinks and snacks are all buy on board, including pop and pretzels.

WS might not "Teal" MCO, but TPA is a strong possibility. Same goes with MIA and FLL, one will get teal the other will get mainline.

Mainline CUN but Teal CZM. I think your getting the idea.

I don't think Hawaii will get Teal, rather those stations will go the opposite and get enhanced mainline (there is a demand on these routes for premium economy, hot meals, and mainline seat).

A true ULCC business model is incompatible from combining services with Encore. The route will have to stand-alone and not require support from the network.

The big question is what about YYC-YYZ and YYC-YVR. Do you "Teal" some flights (1 or 2 out of 12) just to compete with the other ULCC?

Error 601

This seems like killing a fly with a stick of dynamite, or shooting down toy drones with Patriot missiles as the Jordanians are apparently inclined to do.

Why does Newleaf as we know it today warrant any competitive response at all?

In my industry we're constantly being warned about these so-called "light footprint" competitors who are coming to eat our lunch. They exist but they're little more than contractors who have little or no staff, little or no equipment, long lead-times and can only take on the most trivial of projects.

They exist and there is a scope of work at which they are competitive, but loosing any sleep about it is ridiculous and plotting war against them is just a huge waste of time and energy.