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WestJet to launch ultra-low-cost carrier 'Swoop’

WestJet to launch ultra-low-cost carrier 'Swoop’

Old Jul 11, 18, 12:46 pm
  #256  
 
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Originally Posted by keitherson View Post
Come on, you know what I mean. Hamilton is the Paris-Beauvais of Canada.
Hmmm, I just looked out the window, I don't see any Eiffel tower anywhere....
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Old Jul 11, 18, 1:30 pm
  #257  
 
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Originally Posted by keitherson View Post
Come on, you know what I mean. Hamilton is the Paris-Beauvais of Canada.
The fine people of Saskatoon would disagree with that statement. Everyone knows Saskatoon is the Paris of the North. (At least that is what the tourism board keeps saying).


That said, lets hope that Swoop decided Paris is to high end a market for them and they stay out of Saskatoon.
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Old Jul 11, 18, 2:05 pm
  #258  
 
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Originally Posted by Arthurrs View Post
Hmmm, I just looked out the window, I don't see any Eiffel tower anywhere....
You wouldn't at Beauvais either
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Old Jul 11, 18, 7:25 pm
  #259  
 
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Return fares out of YXX from Swoop's sale - started yesterday and running til tomorrow - YEG $49, YWG $128 and YHM $193, until EoS.

Really hope people start to realize the reason for these fares is WS' contempt for the competition and support Flair wherever possible, or accept that these sales will vanish as soon as Flair disappears.

Last edited by Speedbird84; Jul 11, 18 at 7:32 pm
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Old Jul 11, 18, 9:08 pm
  #260  
 
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Originally Posted by Speedbird84 View Post
Return fares out of YXX from Swoop's sale - started yesterday and running til tomorrow - YEG $49, YWG $128 and YHM $193, until EoS.

Really hope people start to realize the reason for these fares is WS' contempt for the competition and support Flair wherever possible, or accept that these sales will vanish as soon as Flair disappears.
if you have read any of the publicly available investor presentations, you will know that Swoop is a significant investment to meet current ULCC competition and match future entrants with strong backing from investors such as Bill Franke. It is designed to have a CASM close to Spirit or Frontier (US $0.05 ex-fuel, compared with US $0.075 for WestJet mainline), so CAD $193 from YXX to YHM after non-transportation fees and taxes are deducted is still at least break even at US $0.05 CASM and current fuel prices, with over 90% load factor (flights from inauguration to this point have been 95% full, according to press reports).
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Old Jul 11, 18, 11:31 pm
  #261  
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https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...inds-of-change

Ed Sims is on vacation, but WestJet’s CEO is still checking up on the number of passengers flying on Swoop, the airline’s new ultra-low-cost carrier.

“We’re seeing unbelievably high load factors. Today, I think we’re flying 95 per cent full; tomorrow is the same,” he said in an interview this week.

“We still think of ourselves very much as in startup mode and setup mode, but the early signs are very, very promising.”
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Old Jul 12, 18, 11:27 am
  #262  
 
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Originally Posted by Speedbird84 View Post
Return fares out of YXX from Swoop's sale - started yesterday and running til tomorrow - YEG $49, YWG $128 and YHM $193, until EoS.

Really hope people start to realize the reason for these fares is WS' contempt for the competition and support Flair wherever possible, or accept that these sales will vanish as soon as Flair disappears.
You didn't notice the $10 YXX-YEG fares?
(edit - you did say return fares)

Flair are offering low YVR-YEG fares as well.. hitting Westjet where it hurts - mainline.

Ron.
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Old Jul 13, 18, 12:13 am
  #263  
 
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The sense I am getting is that Flair is gaining momentum FAST. YVR YEG RT - Flair is $88, WJ $168, AC $228. That is a $700 saving for a family of 5. For a 90 minute flight, you'd be crazy to go with AC or WJ unless someone else is paying for it.
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Old Jul 13, 18, 1:20 am
  #264  
 
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Originally Posted by Sunny Day View Post
The sense I am getting is that Flair is gaining momentum FAST. YVR YEG RT - Flair is $88, WJ $168, AC $228. That is a $700 saving for a family of 5. For a 90 minute flight, you'd be crazy to go with AC or WJ unless someone else is paying for it.
Flair only has 13 flights a week on that route, WestJet has 60 direct flights and many more one-stop flights, Air Canada has 70 direct flights and many more one-stop ones. Much of the traffic is also through traffic, which Flair has no capability to fulfil. If they can make money at the current prices (they take $19.56 of the $88 return fare, the rest is taxes and fees) and take significant market share from WestJet and Air Canada, then Swoop and Rouge will be aggressively deployed on the route. At this point I think Flair and Swoop have mainly taken business from Greyhound, with their announcement of withdrawal from most long distance bus routes this week.
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Old Jul 13, 18, 10:48 am
  #265  
 
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Originally Posted by aerobod View Post
At this point I think Flair and Swoop have mainly taken business from Greyhound, with their announcement of withdrawal from most long distance bus routes this week.
Greyhound blaming Flair for its' withdrawal from long bus service is a convenient excuse.
I suspect there were very few passengers on Greyhound travelling YXX-YEG or between any other major cities.
Most of Greyhounds passengers are traveling from small towns with no airport to other small towns or into major cities.


Originally Posted by aerobod View Post
If they can make money at the current prices (they take $19.56 of the $88 return fare, the rest is taxes and fees)
Money isn't made on the $19.56 base fare. It's made on the artificially high carryon and baggage fees.
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Old Jul 13, 18, 11:11 am
  #266  
 
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Originally Posted by tracon View Post
Money isn't made on the $19.56 base fare. It's made on the artificially high carryon and baggage fees.
They are still unlikely to be making money with an additional $25 each way for checked bags. Bear in mind that YEG to YVR at $39 that they are currently advertising gives $0.02 in revenue, $38.98 in taxes and fees. With 156 seats on their 737-400s and a load factor of 95% or so, they need about $58 in revenue on the 503 mile YEG-YVR route to break even. If someone buys a return ticket and checked bag on YVR-YEG-YVR, Flair loses about $50 when they sell that ticket for $88 and $50 plus taxes for bags..
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Old Jul 13, 18, 12:31 pm
  #267  
 
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I actually do think Flair had an impact on Greyhound. If a bus of 45 people had 15 people travelling on say Edmonton-Vancouver (and there are people that hate flying) with the rest being small town folks, losing the 15 people when other use is also declining could have been the straw that broke the camels back.

Just bought a Flair tkt YEG-YVR return for $108 incl taxes for a weekend. Won't need to bring anything other than my personal item Wish the schedules were a bit better as having a 7am and an 11 am and nothing later is a bit inconvenient. Happy to support the competition (Swoop is not competition)
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Old Jul 15, 18, 12:49 am
  #268  
 
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Originally Posted by Speedbird84 View Post
Return fares out of YXX from Swoop's sale - started yesterday and running til tomorrow - YEG $49, YWG $128 and YHM $193, until EoS.

Really hope people start to realize the reason for these fares is WS' contempt for the competition and support Flair wherever possible, or accept that these sales will vanish as soon as Flair disappears.
Agree - if/when Swoop OR Flair really get established I think we will see less and less of these mega deals.
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Old Jul 18, 18, 11:31 am
  #269  
 
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If Flair fails then fares will rise on Swoop the next day to Westjet fares without the Westjet services and benefits. Fly Flair!
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Old Jul 19, 18, 9:58 am
  #270  
 
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You’re in la la land if you think Flair, with 156 seat, 25 year old 737-400’s has anything close to the cost structure of Swoop.

Even with bag fees, it’s a losing proposition.

The booking curve starts to move beyond Labor Day in about 3 weeks time and Flair, with all that new capacity, will no longer be able to live off summer spill traffic.

I wouldn’t want to have any of my money tied up in the venture.
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