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YKF down to 1 daily, 1 weekly flight after Westjet cancels Florida route

YKF down to 1 daily, 1 weekly flight after Westjet cancels Florida route

Old Sep 8, 2017, 5:27 pm
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 12
YKF down to 1 daily, 1 weekly flight after Westjet cancels Florida route

The Kitchener airport has really been hurting lately, and this just makes matters worse.

ottobud is offline  
Old Sep 9, 2017, 9:58 am
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: YYC, Canada
Programs: AC 35k
Posts: 1,906
If you don't use it you lose it. I am still surprised by the huge numbers of people who drive to YYZ, even from YXU. All of the K-W-C's are driving to Pearson to go to Florida.
YXUFlyboy is offline  
Old Sep 11, 2017, 9:56 pm
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,000
I can see why Westjet's YKF MCO service wasn't doing well:

Ultra-low fare airline flying into Waterloo regional airport summer 2018
Canada Jetlines says it will fly to destinations in Canada, U.S., Mexico and Caribbean
By Kate Bueckert, CBC News Posted: Sep 11, 2017 12:08 PM ET
..Destinations in Canada, Florida

[Canada Jetlines] CEO Stan Gadek told CBC News the destinations from Waterloo are still up in the air. Unlike the WestJet flight to Orlando from the region's airport that was recently cancelled, Gadek said the flights will be on more accessible days. That means not on Tuesday mornings.

"We're going to be serving Florida markets out of Waterloo with popular departure dates like weekends," he said. "It's not a Tuesday market."...
YYCguy is offline  
Old Sep 16, 2017, 9:08 am
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 797
Jetlines have been announcing service "starting soon" since they first started pumping sunshine up the media's rear end in November of 2013, which, for those keeping score, was almost 4 year ago.

Perhaps someone could point out precisely how many revenue flights the "airline" has operated in the period? It's reminiscent of Baltia. Look it up.

Every few weeks they manage to convince some cub reporter to rewrite the same lame story about their impending launch, the latest version of which is for a startup about 10 months from now.

Every time they get media coverage, the Jetlines brain trust uses it to convince themselves that they are real.

"Look at us! We made the news! Woohoo!"

The cub reporters are so bamboozled by the ongoing BS, this time with stories of flights the cost of a
"pair of jeans", which would be less than what WJ charged 21 years ago when oil was in the upper teens, never mind all the other expenses and taxes that have been layered on since then, that they forget to ask the most basic of questions such as "have you guys got two nickels to rub together?", which, after 4 years of fruitless efforts, the answer remains, no.

Now Jetlines has decided to school WestJet on how to operate from "low cost, secondary airports", conveniently forgetting that WJ has operated from these airports for a cumulative total of about 45 years. WJ has forgotten more about the market vagaries of YXX, YHM and YKF than the jackballs at Jetlines, the paper airline, could ever wish to know.

I personally can't wait to see the mighty Jetlines hub at Breslau International Airport, and the steady stream of folks from the GTA making the long trek out to save a few shekels, and then realize that unless they travel with just a toothbrush in their hip pocket, they have been completely conned. If you thought YHM was inconvenient to the GTA, wait till you get a load of YKF. Unless you are within about 30 mins of the immediate KW area, it isn't any sort of substitute for YYZ.

Anyone who is is familiar with the KW area knows that Waterloo Airport and the term "convenience" resonates only to a very small market, which is why after about 6 years there, WJ has only been able to make YYC 6x weekly work, and that's with YKF connecting to countless other WJ destinations in Alberta, BC and even Saskatchewan.

People who have been around the industry for any length of time know that the guys who beak off the most about their prospective new airline are the people least likely to make it actually happen. To be announcing routes and general pricing 10 months before launch, without capital in the bank is ludicrous.

Anyone familiar with WJ history 10 months before launch, ie May '95, knows that they stayed out of the media and quietly got the job done. The first serious mention of WJ was when they rolled the first painted tail out at Esso Avitat in Calgary in early Feb 1996, and announced the commencement of sales that day with wheels up about 3 weeks later.

There were never any media games, which are typically played by penny stock promoters, which, dare I say, is precisely what Jetlines is.

Jetlines better find some viable Tuesday and Wednesday markets with their leased high capital cost aircraft they don't have. They'll need at least 330 hours a month of flying to make the numbers have any chance of working. That's pretty tough to do when you only fly them from Thursday night to Monday morning, and then take Saturday evening off.

You can safely categorize me as an extreme skeptic, and I've been around enough successful launches of these sorts of ventures to recognize real from financial fantasy.

But who knows. Maybe they'll build a private terminal at Breslau and convince somebody to pay close to $700m for it, underwriting the entire affair pretty much forever.
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Last edited by HangTen; Sep 16, 2017 at 9:40 am
HangTen is offline  
Old Sep 18, 2017, 11:13 am
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YHM (BUF/YYZ/YTZ in practice, formerly LHR)
Programs: rapidly diminishing
Posts: 976
Some interesting and pertinent points relevant to this thread here:

sofasurfer is offline  
Old Sep 19, 2017, 11:57 am
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 797
So let me get this straight.

A new entrant can piggyback on a route WJ, who are a real airline, with real airplanes with $4b in real revenue a year, continues to develop after about 5 years in the market, (and the route still doesn't warrant daily service, even though in connects to 37 markets in WJ's network).

That, in of itself, that should serve as a reality check to the folks operating that airport, though the loss of Bearskin to YOW and AA to ORD in recent years should have already served that purpose.

On the other hand, WJ, or anyone else, can't offer competitive service to anywhere else if a new entrant announces, let alone launches, a route with service a couple of days a week to somewhere, perhaps only a seasonal basis?

The people running that airport need their heads examined. Their theory is completely negated by the fact that WJ is in Mesa for the 2nd year in a row offering a sustainable service the community wants at a price that ensures it will continue.

Have people already forgotten Newlaugh's "year round" service from Kelowna to Saskatoon that lasted about 8 weeks?

If the brain trust at YKF believe a new entrant can launch scheduled service in Canada offering all in fares at prices that are less than what were being charged by WJ in 1996 when oil was $16 a barrel and taxes and fees were half of what they are today, and be profitable and sustainable doing so, they need their heads examined. Not only that, I've got some fabulous oceanfront property I'll sell them in Alberta.

WJ was successful because they had a viable business plan that made sense to investors. They raised all the capital required to launch over a 10 month window and were wheels up in 12 months.

Jetballs have been dicking around with their concept since at least Nov 2013 and still have nothing to show for their efforts other than some airbrushed pictures of airplanes they hope to lease in about 9 months. If their plan was viable, they'd already have been operating for close to three years. If their plan were viable, they wouldn't be lobbying for enforced monopolies at secondary airports or increased foreign ownership levels that no one else required to be successful.

No such monopoly was granted at YXX and WJ has operated there successfully for over 20 years, regardless of all others who have come and gone.

Only Jetballs needs the protection.

Anyone considering a career change to work at that outfit deserves the misery they will inevitably endure.

Last edited by HangTen; Sep 19, 2017 at 5:55 pm
HangTen is offline  
Old Sep 19, 2017, 8:43 pm
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Westjet Platinum, Fairmont Platinum RIP, Accor Gold, Marriott Lifetime Silver, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,296
The challenges that face YKF are the same as those for YHM. They are both within a 1 hour drive from YYZ (and YHM is an hour drive from BUF). You'll never get the traffic that by default goes to Toronto because of the convenience of the number of connections and destinations there. Nevertheless the summertime is rather busy at YHM with people going away for summer vacation, and in the winter there is a decent number of weekly flights to sunny destinations. I'd fly more from YHM if it was convenient, because it's only a 20 minute drive from my house, but alas for me the lack of frequency of flights is the disadvantage at YHM. So I drive an hour to YYZ because the convenience outweighs the inconvenience, and I don't feel like flying in after midnight.
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Arthurrs is offline  

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