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Old Aug 13, 2016, 1:17 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: cur
(C)UR('S) GUIDE TO EC261 COMPENSATION AND WS(( )) = info needs to be filled in and/or fact checked

Applicability of EC261
EC261 bases compensation on multiple variables; distance, origin+destination, and length of delay. Ws flights fall into one category: ex-EU and greater than 3,500km. Therefore EC261 applies to any WS flight to Canada departing from an EU member state such as LGW

Reasons for claim
-Denied boarding (due to overselling, down-gauge, or error on part of airline)
-Cancellation that leads to you arriving to your destination late (see delay)
-Delay longer than 3 hours
Delay is measured as the difference between scheduled arrival time and the time the cabin door is opened after arriving at the gate

What you are entitled during/the carrier's duty of care
-For WS delays from EU over two hours "passengers must in every case be offered free meals and refreshments plus two free telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails"
-For delays longer than 5 hours, "passengers may opt for reimbursement of the full cost of the ticket together with, when relevant, a return flight to the first point of departure."
(source: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...URISERV:l24173 )

What you are entitled after
-Denied boarding: 600euro plus care from the airline if you must overnight
-Cancellation of your original flight leading to a delay longer than 4 hours: see delay
-Cancellation of your original flight leading to a re-route leading to delay more than 1 hour and less than 4 hours: ((50 percent of the delay compensation?))
-Delay:
--3-4 hours: 300euro
--4+ hours: 600euro

Exception for cash compensation: extraordinary circumstances
If the following directly caused your denied boarding, cancellation, and/or delay, it is considered an extraordinary circumstance and therefore exempts the carrier from compensation
-Terrywrism
-Security risks
-Extreme weather such as thunder storms halting ground operations or volcanic ash (see faq)
-Civil unrest
-Industrial action
-Hidden manufacturer defects

What is not an extraordinary circumstance?
-Mechanical issues except those caused by hidden manufacturer defects or other extraordinary circumstances
-Airline short staffing or crews timing out due to crew duty hour regulations
-Denied boarding due to an oversell or down-gauge
-Weather at down-line stations affecting your (later) flight (see faq)

Where to contact and how
thewishy had success emailing FacilitationTeam [[at]] westjet period com

For every event and irregardless of number of pax you should submit one (1) single piece of written correspondence that is lucid, factual, and succinct. Keep it short and don't get emo. It must state your claim, state what you are entitled/what you are claiming, and why you are entitled (ie: the EC261 regulation). You must clearly imply or explain that you will not accept anything less than what you are entitled, unless, of course, you want to accept less?

Submitting copies of your ticket(s) (containing e ticket number), reservation, and boarding pass(es) is not compulsory. Failing to provide proof of your ticket, res, and/or boarding pass does not invalidate your claim for compensation.

Use this form letter or write something close to it. Note the succinctness
Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing regarding flight [flight number] on [date] from [departure airport] to [arrival airport] with the scheduled departure time of [scheduled departure time].

My booking reference is [booking or reservation reference if available]. This flight arrived [number of hours] hours late at [airport] (or) This flight was cancelled and I arrived late on [time and date of arrival].

The passengers in the party were [names of party].

The judgment of the Court of Justice of the European Union in Tui & others v CAA, confirmed the applicability of compensation for delay as set out in the Sturgeon case. As such, I am seeking compensation under EC Regulation 261/2004 for this delayed flight.

My scheduled flight length was [use http://gc.kls2.com/], therefore I am seeking (300€, 400€) per delayed passenger in my party. The total compensation sought is [ ].

I look forward to hearing from you and would welcome a response in 14 days.

love,

[name]
(source: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/h...-261-2004.html)
Processing time
30-60 calendar days, from when you send your email to receiving the check in the mail. This is very fast by ec261 standards.

How late can I apply for compensation/statute of limitations?
Statute of limitations in the UK is six (6) years

Appeals
If ws rejects your first or second or xth attempt:
-they could be right and you are wrong
-you could be in this 3-4 hour delay grey area (see "What you are entitled after" -Delays), or;
-you are not asserting your claim properly. See the faq below.

However if you are positive that you are entitled compensation and your claims were properly submitted, you can appeal to the UK CAA's Pax Advice and Complaints Tribunal (PACT).
https://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/Res...-CAA-can-help/

Further reading
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...4R0261&from=EN
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/h...-261-2004.html

FA-Q:
Q: Are weather delays down line that cause late inbound aircraft actually extraordinary circumstances and therefore a legitimate cause ws to deny my claim?
eg: Your lgw-yvr flight is delayed 4h10m solely because that plane was held up by thunderstorms in yyz.

No: this is not extraordinary circumstances. The airline has the obligation to get you to your destination at the scheduled time and delays isolated from your departure and arrival airport are not considered extraordinary. ((iirc there was a court case that wasn't Sturgeon that re-affirmed this, anyone know?))

Q: I see more value in receiving ws flight credit than fungible, liquid cash. What amounts in ws flight credit have others reported in lieu of the 300/pax or 600/pax euro cash compensation?
((there are reports on this thread of what people got going this route))

Q: After my first request, ws is offering me less than what I am entitled citing extraordinary circumstances. I am absolutely positive this is not the case. What do I do?
Airlines typically reject your claim and/or offer you garbage in the form of a flight credit worth significantly less than the cash amount you are entitled. This tends to happen to those who did not submit a claim like a pro (ie: long winded letter, asking for compensation instead of telling you are owed compensation, general non-assertiveness). Avoid using passive phrases like "are you/is your company willing" or "could you/your company". This suggests that you do not realize that you are entitled compensation, giving the carrier an out. Instead use assertive phrases like "I expect" or "I am entitled" or "therefore I am seeking" in order to make clear that you understand your rights. Just persist, stick to your guns, and don't take it personal if you get rejected.

Q: Is there a direct contact? I'm not feeling this web-form complaints thing
While many have used the web form and have got satisfaction, at least one user used FacilitationTeam [[at]] westjet period com and got satisfaction.
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WS Canada-LGW delays

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Old May 15, 2016, 3:31 pm
  #1  
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Join Date: May 2016
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WS Canada-LGW delays

WestJet are running up some substantial delays on their new transatlantic service to LGW. Start-up issues always probable but regular recent delays of over 4 hours. Todays Calgary bound flight took off 6 hours late. Average delays in first week of 54 mins all routes and 134 mins on the Calgary service.
Anyone know if these are just preliminary set-up issues which will be ironed out over time or a sign of more fundamental problems using exhausted 767s?
Cheap fares will bring in the customers but prolonged delays wont bring them back.
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Old May 15, 2016, 5:09 pm
  #2  
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I would think because of their limited number of 767's. They don't have the ability to switch out aircraft.
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Old May 15, 2016, 9:51 pm
  #3  
 
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[Moderator edit to text.] Operations are not running smoothly yet, there are many things to learn. When Encore launched, OTP was about 35%. Over the past year this has improved to over 90% year round. Processes will be refined until OTP is where it needs to be.

Last edited by Ocn Vw 1K; May 23, 2016 at 10:44 am Reason: Member's introductory text is no longer needed now that the prior post was deleted due to it being unduly personalized.
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Old May 16, 2016, 5:41 am
  #4  
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Preliminary delays and teething problems understandable.
An hour (or 2) delay (as recorded in week 1 flights) is manageable but am a little troubled by the frequent 4-6 hours now being recorded in week 2.
And starting to fear that choosing a WestJet flight in 1st year of transatlantic operations may prove to be false economy - especially if it takes up to year to improve OTP.
Also, not overly looking forward to flight if its a substitute leased aircraft, with none of the WS 767 features so widely trailed by Mr Saretsky.
On the plus side - WS haven't cancelled an LGW flight (yet)!
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Old May 16, 2016, 10:52 am
  #5  
 
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Originally Posted by Monsieur Hulot
Preliminary delays and teething problems understandable.
An hour (or 2) delay (as recorded in week 1 flights) is manageable but am a little troubled by the frequent 4-6 hours now being recorded in week 2.
And starting to fear that choosing a WestJet flight in 1st year of transatlantic operations may prove to be false economy - especially if it takes up to year to improve OTP.
Also, not overly looking forward to flight if its a substitute leased aircraft, with none of the WS 767 features so widely trailed by Mr Saretsky.
On the plus side - WS haven't cancelled an LGW flight (yet)!
To answer your substitute aircraft question see this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/westj...-4-2016-a.html

As for the delays. I'm a little worried myself because I've booked a same day connecting flight to VCE on EasyJet.
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Old May 16, 2016, 2:13 pm
  #6  
 
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I'm off to YYZ in August and that service is running late most days at the moment. I guess it has been issues other than the A/C going tech as the first few days of the YYZ service were on different A/C. I really hope Westjet solve the current delay problems as AC and BA need the competition on the UK Canada routes.
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Old May 16, 2016, 5:21 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
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To provide accurate information for flights over the past 10 days, I have pulled all the flight arrival times from flightaware.com and built a table:
Attached Images   
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Old May 19, 2016, 5:51 am
  #8  
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Join Date: May 2016
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Westjet LGW delays

Have also pulled some statistics from FlightStats on WS first two weeks principal programme to LGW.
Makes grim reading for passengers who value punctuality.
In particular, appears the Calgary route is being sacrificed by WS.
(As at 1300 hrs 19 May, the Calgary bound flights still listed as grounded - at least another 2 hr delay).


Calgary
WS1 to LGW 5 flights avg delay 82m min 9m max 176m
WS2 fm LGW 6 flights avg delay 139m min 52m max 340m


Vancouver
WS22 to LGW 8 flights avg delay 37m min 13m max 101m
WS23 fm LGW 7 flights avg delay 60m min 14m max 154m


Toronto
WS3 to LGW 9 flights avg delay 58m min 8m max 249m
WS4 fm LGW 5 flights? avg delay 60m min 14m max 87m


Looks as though WS under-prepared for their LGW venture, which unsatisfactory and surprising for an airline of WS stature and experience.
And the high-profile launch hype noticeably subdued 2 weeks in.
Due to fly to Calgary in Jul and already fearing and dreading the prolonged wait in Gatwick and late arrival in Canada - probably on a chartered plane with none of the WS features advertised.
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Old May 19, 2016, 11:28 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Posts: 1,444
So far over the first 78 767 flights (using the estimated arrival of today's 3 flights that are currently in the air), the OTP stats are as follows:

Completion 100%

On-time or early (A15) - 28%
> 15min <= 1hr delay - 30%
> 1hr <= 2hr delay - 28%
> 2hr delay - 14%

Average delay - 60 minutes
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Old May 19, 2016, 11:52 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
Here is the full OTP data for the first 78 flights:
Attached Images  
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Old May 21, 2016, 10:11 am
  #11  
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LGW delays

Appreciate your willingness to post the LGW OTP statistics Aerobod, although they don't make particularly inspiring or re-assuring reading. 1 in 7 flights so far arriving 2+ hours late with some pretty big numbers in there.
Understand first LGW cancellation now posted - todays (21 May) flight to Edmonton.
Out of interest, what happens to Edmonton-bound passengers due on the cancelled flight?
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Old May 21, 2016, 11:03 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,444
Originally Posted by Monsieur Hulot
Appreciate your willingness to post the LGW OTP statistics Aerobod, although they don't make particularly inspiring or re-assuring reading. 1 in 7 flights so far arriving 2+ hours late with some pretty big numbers in there.
Understand first LGW cancellation now posted - todays (21 May) flight to Edmonton.
Out of interest, what happens to Edmonton-bound passengers due on the cancelled flight?
A recovery aircraft is on the way today, to bring those Edmonton flight guests back tomorrow.
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Old May 23, 2016, 4:47 am
  #13  
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Join Date: May 2016
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3 WS cancellations on consecutive days out of LGW.
Anticipate it is the same aircraft remaining grounded (which is a worry in itself) and if only 1 relief aircraft available, sounds like some WS passengers unlikely to see Canada this summer.
From having no 767 cancellations in the first 2 weeks, WS stats now offer customers a 6% chance of cancellation out of LGW, which might be pushing 10% by Wednesday.
Anyone else beginning to get nervous about buying into the WS transatlantic project?
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Old May 23, 2016, 7:15 am
  #14  
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Tuesday's (24 May) LGW to Calgary flight already cancelled.
Not a word of explanation or re-assurance carried on the website.
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Old May 23, 2016, 2:04 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,001
Originally Posted by Monsieur Hulot
sounds like some WS passengers unlikely to see Canada this summer.
Why the drama?
WS will do what they can to ensure their customers see Canada. More so than some airlines.
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