Westjet leases B757 for Alberta to Hawaii Flts
Dec 22, 2010, 6:57 pm
#16
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 797
I'd suggest your view is that Westjet is planning for long-term addition of new aircraft types to the fleet and that what they are doing now is a big project. Adding a wet-leased aircraft is not a big deal - all they do is sell seats, bringing new aircraft types into their own fleet is a big deal, which is exactly why I think they are doing this small-time now to fill a particular, isolated need. I don't think this move suggests anything with respect to longer-term plans other than as a test case for a larger aircraft, which I'll wildly speculate could be 737-900/ER to handle some somewhat longer-haul routes with full passenger load.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/737...c_newyork.html
Wet leasing an airplane is not a big deal in the short term but is the plan to wet lease for ever and ever to get the Alberta to Hawaii market?
I don't think this makes a lot of sense, unless I own North American Aviation and can make lots of money on my 757's by doing the flying for WestJet. I am also not sure how long the authorities will allow Westjet to use wet lease airplanes for scheduled flying. One season? Two seasons?
Westjet saw how badly the wet lease situation worked for Greyhound when it came to customer service and I do not think they want to risk their reputation on trying to repeat that situation, even if it is only seasonal to Hawaii. I hope there are some people left in Westjet that remember that fiasco and can explain it to the MBA's there who were playing with their Pokeman toys when this happened.
I think Westjet will have to find a long term solution to this route and others that really stretch the envelope on the 737NG. My theory is that few people like more than 2 hours in a Dash 8, 3 hours in a CRJ, 4.5 hours in an EMB and 6 hrs in a 737.
If Westjet wants to fly Alberta to Hawaii, or BC and Alberta to the Caribbean, or anywhere to central America or even to England or Europe, they will have to graduate to a new aircraft type.
It's evolution, but that is normal, just like Southwest has dramatically evolved and is buying AirTran and will have a variety of 737's and 717's by next summer. I do not think many people on this forum would ever have guessed Southwest would buy AirTran even 5 years ago!
I hope Westjet finds a way to manage the changes that I think are bound to occur.
Last edited by HangTen; Dec 22, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Dec 22, 2010, 8:23 pm
#17
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 980
Well, as mentioned previously, this is just a test to see if WJ can fill a plane with that many seats and I'm sure that there'll be some decisions made by this time next year on how the fleet will evolve. After all, after 2015 (I think) there are no further orders for 737s.
Dec 23, 2010, 10:04 am
#18
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: YYC
Programs: AC Basic, UA MP Gold, Marriott Gold Elite, SPG Gold, Amex Platinum
Posts: 3,008
These flights were planned on 737's and had been sold on westjet.com for many months now. Having a 757 on the route increases the amount of seats that can be sold, obviously.
WS does not want to match AC's times out of AB. We want and have daytime flights; AC has red-eye's.
WS does not want to match AC's times out of AB. We want and have daytime flights; AC has red-eye's.
AC only has a redeye in one direction (YYC-HNL). Having flown to HNL before I would have preferred an overnight on the return were I to actually try and vacation in HNL/OGG. At the time the HNL flights was an MR through SFO, good flight times but find of sucked up one day of my weekend.
Westjet is also trying for 15 hour days with the 757 and trying to avoid redeye flying. If there is snow delay at the Alberta end, things could get screwed up real quick. THis is about as bad as running a single 333 on YYC-FRA-YYC. Delays at one end could cascade throughout the week.
Dec 23, 2010, 10:09 am
#19
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: YYC
Programs: AC Basic, UA MP Gold, Marriott Gold Elite, SPG Gold, Amex Platinum
Posts: 3,008
Well, as mentioned previously, this is just a test to see if WJ can fill a plane with that many seats and I'm sure that there'll be some decisions made by this time next year on how the fleet will evolve. After all, after 2015 (I think) there are no further orders for 737s.
Dec 23, 2010, 11:18 am
#20
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 797
Westjet does not need a test to see if they can fill the 757. The AB-Hawaii flights are there simply to be competitive on AC services. Simply put last year WS got killed (margin wise) on AB-Hawaii. The WS lovefest with Hawaii started by transiting Albertans through YVR, that dried up when AC launched n/s services. These flights are just to protect thier market share and improve yields on YVR-Hawaii services.
What is interesting is that both AC and WJ are using aircraft on this route that are not consistent with their overall product.
The 3 amigo aircraft offer a product that isn't anything like Air Canada's overall product and even with a "service ambassador" on board, the Westjet product on North American will not be consistent with its other flights.
Air Canada runs its own all economy aircraft that would make it cheaper per seat than its 767 airplanes with 2 classes. Westjet has contracted out flying to a foreign operator who would want to make a good profit on their aircraft which probably means there is not much profit left over for them when the day is over.
I wonder which of the two airlines will be the first to find a permanent solution to these problems?
Qui audet adipiscitur!
Jan 16, 2011, 10:32 am
#21
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto YYZ UA-1K 1MM,QFgold
Programs: Royal Ambassador/ SPG Platinum 75/Marriott gold
Posts: 14,283
Without question West Jet will be the first to find a solution. AC lease on the 767 is coming to an end and the 787 if far to valuable to use on the short HNL flight. Using a XM 767 also makes AC uncompetitive with any airline in NA flying to HNL, and AC has no money to find a solution.
YUL-SFO is almost the same distance as YVR-HNL Its NOT a long flight but winds and water make it an issue... ON the AC thread its endless whining about no XM planes that's just a joke. I wonder if its a western thing that has both airlines rushing to waste money on a holiday market.
These same 767 non XM planes will fly double the distance to ATH
Lester B Pearson Intl, Toronto, ON (YYZ) to
Athinai Arpt, Athens, GR (ATH)
One Way Distances:
Distance 5040 miles 8110 km
Also IF West jet was to get long range planes what would they do with them in the summer?
Mar 3, 2011, 7:02 pm
#22
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: fwp blood diamond, dykwia uranium
Posts: 7,251
No airlines in America, (except maybe CO if they even have the PTV on those 767s they are flying) are using their best equipment to Hawaii, please correct me if I'm mistaken. And who cares? Pax are going to HAWAII .I'd suggest your view is that Westjet is planning for long-term addition of new aircraft types to the fleet and that what they are doing now is a big project. Adding a wet-leased aircraft is not a big deal - all they do is sell seats, bringing new aircraft types into their own fleet is a big deal, which is exactly why I think they are doing this small-time now to fill a particular, isolated need. I don't think this move suggests anything with respect to longer-term plans other than as a test case for a larger aircraft, which I'll wildly speculate could be 737-900/ER to handle some somewhat longer-haul routes with full passenger load.