Has anyone visited the Trinity Site?
 

It is only open two days a year, the next one being April 7, 2007. I have been thinking of visiting for a while but was wondering if anyone who had visited had any first hand comments. Thanks for any comments.

Are you referring as the old Ground-Zero site in NM, aka Manhattan Project? That's cool that they open it up at all to the public. I was flying SAN-DTW a while back, window on the right side of the A/C and was looking towards the desert in the distance for it. Wish I had a GPS so I could gauge appx. how far the old blast area was. Not sure if there is any physical characteristics left after 60+ years anyway that you could see from the air.

Please report back as to how it went on your return. I, among others, have an interest in fissile things that go boom.

Yes. There is a monument at Ground Zero and there are some exhibits including some of the debris from the monitoring equipment and some trinitite, the radioactive glass left in the crater. There is also a protected, covered area of the original crater but Im not sure if that is open to the public.

I visited the Trinity site in October 1997 (wow, has it really been that long?!? :eek: )
The site is on the White Sands missile range and only open the first Saturday in April and October. The site itself isn't very large and there's really not much to see. The site is very remote (not surprisingly!) They have a marker at ground Zero and a model of the FatMan bomb that was tested here and was also dropped on Japan. The ground all around has been scraped up and replaced but they have one small section preserved that has glass fragments created by the explosion. They had a display showing the radiation exposure for an hour visit is much less than an X-ray or even a cross-country flight. But still wouldn't hang around too long :) There's also an abandoned house a few miles away that you can visit. The entrance is near the town of Soccoro, New Mexico, off of US380.

I made a long weekend trip of it, I flew into El Paso Friday night and stayed overnight in Socorro. The next day I drove to the Trinity site, then continued onto Roswell, then finally overnight at Carlsbad caverns (loong drive). On Sunday I visited Carlsbad caverns then drove back to El Paso.

Hiroshima bomb a captured German weapon?
 

It always seemed strange to me that the Hiroshima bomb was so different from the Fat Man.

I think that they wanted to try two different types of detonators. Also, I seem to recall that the Hiroshima bomb was uranium and the Nagasaki bomb was plutonium. And I think that there was difficulty in making enough enriched material for either. That might have had something to do with it.

Have not, but definately on my "to-do" list.

How far is it/easy to get to is it from ABQ? Im considering flying out the evening of the 6th, getting up the morning of the 7th and driving there to see it. Then head back to NY either Saturday night or Sunday morning.

ABQ's a lot closer than ElPaso, so that should be fine.
It still took maybe an hour to drive from Socorro (it's a fair distance inside the base), so maybe ~2 hrs from ABQ. Just take I-25 to US380 east.

At the time it was much harder to do isotopic separation (U235) than chemical separation (Pu238 made in reactors). At the same time, plutionium requires implosion detonation which is rather tricky while uranium can work in a simple gun-type bomb. Therefore it was felt that there was no need to test a uranium gun-type bomb, but there was a desire to test a plutonium gun-type bomb rather than have it go fizzle in a bombing meant to have frightful impact on an enemy...

This is something I've always wanted to do, although my wife has strongly discouraged me, being afraid of cancer and/or mutant children resulting from radiation exposure (haven't convinced her yet that there's not that much residual radiation left). Do you have to apply ahead of time to some agency to be able to do it?

I've also wanted to take a tour of the Nevada Test Site, although I don't know if those are still even offered.

As far as I can tell you dont need to sign up in advance on the two days of the year it is open. There is information on the White Sands Missle Range site. You can Google "Trinity Site" and get the info including the phone number of the White Sands press office for any questions. There are a few sites with pictures posted from previous open houses. They include people with Geiger counters and information on the exposure levels from being there. As time has passed they have eased the restrictions that were in place due to radiation. Also, the original crater was covered with dirt to cover up the radioactive material somewhat.

I visited in 2005. PM me for a link to some pictures I took while there.

Yes, on a private tour
 

Yes, I visited in 2001. I was at White Sands Missile Range for official reasons and was very fortunate to receive a private tour of the area - including the blast site. I was also encouraged to take a small piece of trinitite home with me. I've tested it with a geiger counter and it's not much more radioactive than normal background radiation. It's pretty cool, but I wonder what it would fetch on eBay?

To get there, I started at the base close to Las Cruces and drove north through the range - no missile tests that day. :) It took almost 3 hours one way, but well worth it. I would encourage others to visit if possible.

yes i have and a trip report
 

If you can't go on the days open to the public, you can sometimes join a tour. We went in November, on a tour arranged by the Bosque del Apache. A man who observed the explosion led the tour.

http://peachfront.diaryland.com/newmex3.html

Scroll down a little, you'll get to the Trinity report. Pictures too.

Rives, I believe the tour guide told us that the tiny pieces of trinitite were selling for around $30 and that none of them were legal or officially acquired, even in the area gift shops. However, they don't really seem to mind. It isn't like the Petrified Forest where they promise that a curse will fall on your family for untold generations plus you could be fined thousands of dollars for taking or selling a specimen. I think I'd rather have the specimen than the $30, just for the historical value.

People interested in atomic history should also visit the National Atomic Museum in downtown ABQ. Highly recommended.


http://peachfront.diaryland.com/atomicmseum.html

I have never been to the Trinity Site but if you want a chance at catching a live fire at a bombing range, check out this: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&z=13...60675&t=k&om=1

It's off US84 outside of Clovis, NM and I have caught many a B-1 and B-52 runs. You have to drive on some off the beaten path type roads and I definitely suggest a truck.

For those who cannot get there, you can look at it on Google Earth.

From the White Sands web site:

GPS Coordinates for obelisk (exact GZ) = N33.40.636 W106.28.525

Im actually going this April 7. I booked on AA to ABQ and will rent a car and drive down very early Saturday morning. Thanks for all of the input from everyone.

If I can get away with it, I may join you. :D I just have to lobby my wife. ("You like New Mexico, right?")

They are. On a monthly basis, or if you have 10 or more people, you can schedule your own.

Thanks Peachfront. Guess you're right. I will hang on to the trinitite for the memories.

Any updated information? I'm visiting on 10/6... then the balloon festival on 10/8.

Google Earth fanatics (myself included) know how picky GEarth is about entering coordinates into the Fly To box. A copy/paste of the coordinates above won't work, but these two will:
33 40 6.36 N 106 28 5.25 W
33 40 6.36 N 106 28 52.5 W
(I'm not sure if the longitude is 5.25 seconds, or 52.5 seconds)

And, neither lat/long will place you dead set on the target. 5.25 is off by about 3/4 of a mile and 52.5 is off by about 2/3 of a mile. Copy and paste:
33 40 36.29 N 106 28 32.69W
into the fly to box and you are within a few feet.

A kmz file can be found here - http://www.gearthhacks.com/dlfile337...omb-blast,.htm

I went in the spring and I really enjoyed it, although it was pretty cold and windy. The scenery around there is pretty striking and they do a good job of preserving some of the history of the area, including ground zero itself and the ranch house where the bomb was assembled. A couple things to mention. First, is try to get there early. I got there before it opened and had about a 30 minute wait until it opened but then not much of a wait to get in (although there was a line when I got there). That will let you get in before it gets too crowded. Also, if it is crowded you might want to take the bus to the ranch house early so you dont have to wait.

Pictures on Flickr - here is one of the obelisk:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9788300...7600235398693/


There are more there of ground zero, a the ranch, a pueblo 50 or so miles north of there and Pterogylph National Monument in ABQ.

One other suggestion, after you visit the site stop at the Owl Cafe near the entrance to the interstate for a green chili cheeseburger. I didnt care much for the branch in ABQ, but the one near White Sands is great.

TOM LEHRER - The Wild West Is Where I Want To Be
 

I hate it when old songs pop into my head. If you remember Tom Lehrer's "The Wild West Is Where I Want To Be" you will understand why this particular thread popped this song into my head.

Lyrics can be found at http://members.aol.com/quentncree/lehrer/wildwest.htm and of course, there is an article on Tom Lehrer on Wikipedia.

I went to the trinity site a couple of years ago and it was pretty cool. Like everyone else said there is a monument at ground zero, and the debris, but they also have a few other small exhibits on the missile range related to the testing. One of which is a little house where they built the plutonium core. On the bus to and from the site they also played a little film telling you about the development of the bomb and the scientists involved.

If you are going, I would also suggest after you leave to visit the Old Owl Bar in San Antonio, NM. Apparently they were one of the nearest restaurants at the time of the testing, and as a result used to serve many of the scientists from the site. They have a really good burger, and they make a green chili relish that is pretty good to put on it. ^

I rode my motorcycle out to the Tirnity Site last year. Definately worth the experience - if for nothing else than to say you've been. With a modestly active imagination, one can easily stand a few hundred yards from the monument and picture the hellish fireball rising above the landscape

A few notes:
You MUST have a valid, government issued photo ID - It is, afterall, a military base.

The "trinitite" sold along the roadside is made by a welding torch, not an atomic bomb.

A section of the original crater floor was protected by an enclosure with a viewing port. However, the walls recently caved in and the original crater floor is no longer viewable.

Food/water/souvenirs/portable toilets are available.

Cameras are permitted but photos can be taken ONLY at the actual monument site. (see military base comment above)

The only actual artifacts at the site are a cement/rebar foot from the tower that held the A-Bomb, and a huge steel tube - named "Jumbo". Jumbo has a very entertaining history and purpose - which I'll leave to you to discover. http://www.takemytrip.com/images/448_IMG_8682.jpg

Genuine Atomic Bomb hot sauce sold only at the site is a great stocking stuffer!

The scenery is vast and majestic for hundreds of miles in all directions. In other words, don't run out of gas.

Blue Skies,
JJ

But very few people know the whole story of Jumbo, and a Google search will probably not find the story.

General Groves proposed that a scaled-down test be conducted in a containment sphere. That was where the whole idea came from. He was concerned about gambling on a billion dolars worth of plutonium. The idea was to intentionally make a small bomb that would not vaporize Jumbo and then recover the plutonium for a real bomb. But Oppenheimer could not guarantee that the small scale test could actually be contained. He argued that the small bomb might be bigger than expected and they would still end up losing the plutonium.

It was not proposed as backup in case the Trinity test failed. That was Oppenheimer's alternate proposal, but he only did that get Groves calmed down enough to permit the plans for a test. Nobody was ever really happy with the idea for Jumbo being part of Trinity.

Ahhh...a good teaser to the Jumbo story!
Go to the Trinity site, talk to the site guides, they have the Paul Harvey-esq "rest of the story". Including several attempts to destroy it to avoid governmental investigation. It turns out ol' Jumbo is a pretty tough cookie!

If after your trip to Trinity you still didn't get the story, I will lay the whole story out here, as best as I can tell it. But that would ruin the fun of the trip! No you HAVE to go!

My source is "Critical Assembly: A Technical History of Los Alamos during the Oppenheimer Years, 1943-1945".

I thought that book had the full story on Jumbo, but it does end with 1945 so it isn't really complete.

They also built one-tenth scale Jumbinos for testing. The Jumbinos had holes blown out from the explosions and were left in a trash dump. They were rediscovered many years later by a jogger.

They run all-day tours out to the test site here. IIRC less radiation than an x-ray for the whole trip. Book in advance--there's a bit of a background check and thus they won't take walk-ups.

I think it was more a matter of what they could make.

Testing the detonator doesn't need a bomb. You can build it and see what happens to pieces of metal without using fissionables.

Still offered. As I write this the government site is busted, here's a page talking about it:

http://www.atomictourist.com/nts.htm

They were certain the U235 gun type would work and did not feel it was necessary to test it. The plutonium (the round bomb) was the implosion type. They were not sure it would work (if the explosives do not explode perfectly it does not go off) so they tested one. It was not a "plutonium gun-type bomb".

IIRC the test and the two war bombs used up all the refined material on hand. Of course Japan did not know it, but it was several weeks or months later before more cores were ready. For a short time after Nagasaki, the world was a nuclear bomb free zone.

No. The third bomb was ready. Truman would not approve it's use. Then the Japanese surrendered.

Incidentally, there is no such thing as a plutonium gun-type bomb. It won't work--you'll get a fizzle every time. Gun assembly is simply to slow.

(Note that the reverse does not apply--you can make a U-235 implosion bomb.)

I'm sure the TSA is eagerly taking notes here trying to figure out why all these FTers are swapping ideas on how to build an atomic bomb.
Nice knowin' ya folks! ;)

I visited the Trinity Site this past weekend, and thought I would share some observations.

First, definitely arrive early. I arrived at the Stallion Gate at 8:00 a.m. just as the gates were opening. (For those driving from Albuquerque, the drive was just under 2-hours from my home on the east side of Albuquerque, including a rest-stop and a stop to pick up a breakfast burrito.) There was no ID check at the gate, but they did record each license plate. The drive from the gate to Trinity is about 20-minutes.

The walk from the parking lot to ground zero is 1/4-mile one way. The folks above have mentioned what is there, so no need to really go into it here.

The busses to the McDonald house ran every five to ten minutes. There is a time-capsule near the house that is scheduled to be opened in 2009 (didn't say April or October) where some archives will be revealed.

Upon returning to Trinity from the McDonald house, the crowd had trebbled (at least) in size... this is just over an hour after our arrival on site. Parking lot was going into overflow and the path to ground zero was pretty thick.

The drive back through the gate an into San Antonio was uneventful. The Owl Bar is a definite stop, and getting there early really helps. The green chile cheese burgers are awesome (including a hand-pattied burger) and are on any future trips that we take south on I-25. Be sure to pop into the gas station next door for some fudge; it was a nice treat after the burger.

Finally, the veggie stand across the street has fresh fruits and veggies. If you are staying in the area for a while and want a snack, I'd definitely recommend stopping by.

Me too.

A week ago was the third Saturday in October and one of the two days out of the year that the Trinity Site is open. I think this is the first time it’s been open since the movie Oppenheimer came out. I was reminded by an article saying crowds at the site were bigger than normal this October.