Itinerary help
 

We would like your help with the following. We will spend the weekend of June 15 in New York and will need to be in Calgary (Canada) around June 28. Between these dates we would like some 10 days in the mountains. The idea is to fly AMS - NYC - XXX - (YYY) - YYC - AMS (XXX and YYY being Denver, or Salt Lake City or Las Vegas or .....) which, it seems, can be done on Delta/KLM at reasonable fares.

We (couple, around 50) have never been to that part of the US except in Las Vegas (which we are not too eager to go back to, but LV could be the arrival/departure point). Main idea is to do a road trip and see and tour some of the national parks in this area. Some easy hikes on some days, and see the scenery and the landscapes. We don't mind driving, however obviously we don't want to spend the entire 10 days behind the steering wheel. Rental car + motels/hotels.

Questions:
1) what would you suggest in terms of national parks to see and tour? (suggested itinerary)
2) how crowded is June 16-27 in this part of the US? Would you recommend to reserve hotels in advance or will it be easy to secure accommodation on the spot?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

I would fly to LAS and from there drive to Zion National Park and then on to Bryce. The scenery is some of the most beautiful in the world. If you do a search on this forum putting Zion in the search field you will come up with a lot of good driving trips that are so worthwhile. This is an example of such a thread. But there are many.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/west/...road-trip.html

We haven't been out there in quite a few years but I can recommend the
Desert Pearl Inn in Springdale near Zion. It's along the Virgin River and you could veg out there for a few days.

There is just so much to see in that area. National Geographic has a book that may be worthwhile taking a look at, National Geographic's Best Drives in the US.

Bobette

June 16-27 yu have quite a few options.

The weather at that time of year should be nice but if you are at high elevation above 7500 feet you can see some overnight snow....no blizzard..more of a dusting to 2 inches.

Some of these locations would be Yellowstone, Bryce Canyon, and the mountains of Colorado.


The question for you is which part do you want to see?

here are some sampling itinerarys of your travels based out of different airports.....

17-27 is 10 days...

LAS
day 0...fly into Vegas drive to Hoover dam,,,spend night in Williams, AZ
day 1... drive to Grand Canyon
day 2... Grand Canyon...night in Tuba City
day 3... Navajo/Hopi Reservations in AM, Canyon De Chiele in the PM Monument Valley evening sunset. nightthere or in Kayenta, AZ
day 4... scenic drive day up UT 93 through Capitol Reef down US 12..night in Escelante
day 5...explore Escalante area...night at Bryce Canyon
day 6... Bryce canyon for day...night in Kanab/Page
day 7... Page, AZ for the day..do Antelope Canyon and boat trip on water..night in Kanab or Marble Canyon
day 8...Zion National Park
day 9...Zion National Park..drive to Vegas
day 10...

the extra Day could be a day in Sedona, second day eploring Hopi/Navajo area, or another day at the Grand Canyon.

SLC
day 0...fly into SLC drive to Idaho Falls/West Yellowstone
day 1... Yellowstone
day 2... Yellowstone
day 3... Yellowstone AM Grand Teton PM
day 4... Grand Teton AM...drive to Rock Springs/Vernal
day 5... AM drive to Moab..Arches NAtional Park PM
day 6... Arches/Canyonlands
day 7... Arches Canyonlands in AM...drive Monument Valley for PM...night in Cortez, CO
day 8... Mesa Verde National Park...night in Cortez
day 9...Mesa Verde in AM...drive US 550 in PM to Ouray.
day 10...drive back to SLC.

alt day 7... canyonlands/Arches in AM, Evening in Monument Valley, night in Page, AZ
alt day 8... Antelope Canyon and water trip..night in Kanab
alt day 9...Bryce Canyon for the day..night in Bryce Canyon
alt day 10...drive back to SLC via UT 12 to Torrey.


DEN
day 0...drive to Estes Park
day 1... Rocky Mountian National Park..night in Pueblo
day 2...drive through Colorado to Montorse for night..side trip to Sand Dunes National Park and Gunnison NAtional Park
day 3...US 550 AM...to cortez Mesa Verde in PM
day 4...Mesa Verde NAtional Park
day 5... MesaVerde in AM...Moumnet Valley at sunset..night in Moab
day 6...Arches/Canyonlands
day 7...Arches/Canyonlands
day 8...Arches/Canyonlands...drive to Glenwood Springs, CO
day 9...Aspen/Marroon Bells through Independence Pass then drive to Breckonridge...return to Denver
day 10...

day 0...Into Denver drive to Salida, CO or Pueblo, CO
day 1... Sand Dunes National PArk...drive down to Espinada, NM
day 2...Bandalier National Monument AM, PM Santa Fe
day 3...Santa Fe...night in Grants, NM
day 4...Acoma Pueblo in AM drive to Canyon De Cheile PM, sunset in Monument Valley
day 5...Arches/Canyonlands
day 6...Arches/Canyonlands..night in Cortez
day 7...MesaVerde National PArk...cortez
day 8...Mesa Verde AM, PM US 550 through Ouray...night in Glenwood Springs, CO
day 9...Aspen/Marroon Bells...drive to Estes Park
day 10...Rockey Mountain National PArk...to Denver

day 0...to Estes Park
day 1...Rocky Mountian NAtional Park...drive to South Dakota
day 2...Black Hills Area (Badlands National Park, Custer state Park, Mt Rushmore, Wind Cave National PArk)
day 3...Black Hills
day 4...Black hills
day 5...AM Black Hills...drive to Billings, MT or Codey, WY for night
day 6...Yellowstone
day 7...Yellowstone
day 8...Grand Teton...drive to Rock Springs, WY
day 9...drive to Aspen through Rock Springs/Vernal (Flamming Gorge, Dinosaur NAtional Monument)
day 10...Aspen/Marron Bells...drive to DEnver

Excellent suggestions!

On the first itinerary, I only have two comments.

Instead of staying in Tuba City after the Grand Canyon, I'd push on if at all possible to Kayenta and stay at the Hampton Inn (one of the very nicest properties you'll find, and one of the few Hamptons with its own very good restaurant. Although if I were in Kayenta, I would head immediately for he Amigo Cafe again for a Navajo Taco :D)

While in Page, spend an hour at the John Wesley Powell museum. Fascinating place. In fact, before you journey in this part of the country, I highly recommend you get one of the accounts of Powell's expedition to explore the Grand Canyon in the late 1860s. Pretty amazing stuff)

You will need to reserve hotels in advance.....especially the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone/Grand Teton Area.

Same true for Bryce canyon, Estes Park, Cortez, Kayenta, Torrey, and Moab.

In ssome areas if you wait till the last second you may have to drive an hr or more away to find someplace to stay.

With the other areas you have numerous hotel options but on weekends it will be more difficult than weekends because many "local" weekend travelers will be competing with you for hotel space.

Places not near a national Parks you will find places.

With the Grand Canyon if you cant find a spot in a lodge or the best wetern/Holiday InnExpress just outside of the south rim entrance tthe next hotels will be in Williams, Flagstaff, or Tuba City.

With Yellowstone if you cant find a lodge or a hotel in West Yellowstone, Gardiner, or Cooke City you have to look at Cody, Idaho Falls, or Bozeman/Livingston, MT.

At this time of year you have the option to camp which will open up more options for you....or some places like a KOA or other similar places allow you to rent a cabin with beds but you need to bring your own sleeping bag.

If you do Bryce/Zion/Page/North Rim of the Grand Canyon ...Kanab is a good place you can use to stay 3-4 nights and then drive to each of these locations for the day.

Same with Cortez, CO....you can do Mesa Verde but also do day trips through the mountains on US 550/CO 123 through Ouray and telluride and then do another day trip to Canyon de Chiele and Monument Valley, another one to Chaco Canyon.

In Rapid City, SC you can use that as a base to stay while you visit the Black Hills area.

In this area most hotels have laundry facilities you can use.

If staying in Kanab, and in reasonable health, consider drawing for a permit to see Coyote Butte North. A normal Sedan can make the drive to the trailhead, and I believe the hike is 4 miles or so. It's worth it to head to BLM office in the morning and see if you can get a "walk-in" permit as well. I believe you can shell out for a "guide" if you really want to go but don't get a permit.

It's amazing. Only 20 people/day get to go.

http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/arolrsma...s/permits.html

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5084/5...c207d21b78.jpg

As far as i know you can't get a guided tour. I would question anyone offering such a tour.

Only 20 tickets per day.

the trail is about 2 miles out and 2 miles back.

the road to the trailhead is accessible by car if it hasnt rained.

10 are done in a lottery 4 months before, 10 are reserved to be handed out the day before use....If you want to do this on Saturday you need to be in line at the office Friday morning when they open and they conduct another lottery then to issue the other 10 tickets.

the location of this lottery varies. In the winter it is done at the field office in Kanab. In the spring, summer, and fall there is a satellite office at the pull off on US 89 about halfway between Kanab and Page (35-40 miles from each)

If you ever want to do this the best time to try and get a ticket is in the winter months when you have to go to Kanab for tickets (Nov-Feb). The Kanab office is only open Monday-Friday. Friday is the best day to go. On holiday weekends (this past weekend for example) they would issue tickets on Friday morning for Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. On normal Friday's they issue tickets for Saturday, Sunday, and Monday.

http://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/arolrsma...s/permits.html

You need to submit a lottery application during the month of February to try and get tickets for June. If you were targeting July you need to submit it sometime during March. It costs $5 to do the online application. Consider the fee a donation. If you happen to be selected you will get notification via email and then purchase the tickets.

I'll have to pull out my kelsey book, but I think it mentions an operation where you can shell out a ridiculous amount of money...I recall something of the like, but I went in 2009.

If in the area, it is still worth it to try and get a permit. Living in Utah myself, I don't know anyone who has actually been. It is certainly a treat to go though.

Taking nothing away from the other (excellent) suggestions, I'm surprised nobody has proposed a one-way road trip that could include some time in the Canadian Rockies. Personally, I'd start in Salt Lake City, go north to Grand Teton NP, then into Yellowstone (adjacent) then up to Glacier NP. From there it's reasonably easy to run up to Banff and Jasper NPs in Canada. YYC is around 90 min. from Banff. IMO the Canadian Rockies should be on everyone's bucket list; others may disagree.

That would cut out at least one flight, which would probably cover the surcharge/difference in cost you'd experience with a one-way car rental between SLC and YYC. (Taking rental cars over the border is no big deal - done all the time.)

http://www.dreamlandtours.net/day-to...-paria-canyon/

They offer tours---ONLY if you have a ticket then they provide tours to it. They have no access in getting you tickets or a way to bypass the lottery.

there was a time when this was unregulated....the fee system started in 1997.

Thanks for the reply. However, we have already toured the Canadian Rockies several times (Banff, Jasper, Lake Louise, Yoho, Radium Hot Springs, etc.) so this trip will be devoted to the US parts. Currently we think we will do the Grand Canyon / Zion / Bryce / Monument Valley trip suggested above.

So far this is what we have in mind:

Day one: arrive LAS early evening stay overnight in LAS
Day two/three: two nights in Tusayan, AZ tour Grand Canyon
Day four: one night in Kayenta, AZ Monument valley
Day five/six: two nights in Escalante, UT for Bryce Canyon
Day seven/eight: two nights in Kanab for Zion
Day nine: one night in Page AZ for Antelope Canyon
Day ten: back to LAS
Day eleven: fly to YYC

Some suggestions on the itinerary....

when you travel Nevada and parts of Arizona (flagstaff, grand canyon, Page) is on Pacific time. Utah and the Navajo area (Monument Valley) is on Mountain time (one hour ahead)

From Vegas to Grand Canyon is about a 5 hr drive. You pass by Hoover Dam. You used to pass over it but the bridge was built.


im not sure how you are getting from Monument Valley to Bryce Canyon....are you going up UT 93 through Capitol Reef to Escalante, or are You going to go through Page, AZ?

day 1: arrive in Vegas
day 2: drive to GC, stay there
day 3: Grand Canyon
day 4: Grand Canyon
day 5: grand canyon in AM...drive 3 hrs to Monument Valley for sunset
day 6: tour of monument valley in AM...drive to Torrey/Boulder/escalante in PM.
day 7: Explore UT 12 area around Escalante, Capitol Reef Park area. stayin Bryce.
day 8: all day at Bryce. Must be there at sunset time. stay in Kanab
day 9: Do US 89/US89A loop trip to Page and do Antelope Canyon tour. If you want to do a Photographers tour make reservations now. sstay in Kanab
day 10: Zion National Park...drive to Vegas at night.
day 11: fly to YYC.


You can add an extra day elsewhere....some alternatives from mday 4 to day 6:

day 4: Grand Canyon in AM drive 3 hrs to Monument Valley for sunset view stay in Kayenta
day5: Canyon D'Cheile stay in Kayenta
day6: AM moument Valley tour, PM drive to Escalante

day 4: Grand Canyon in AM drive 3 hrs to Monument Valley for sunset view then drive to Cortez, CO
day5: Mesa Verde National Park
day6: Mesa Verde National Park in AM, PM drive to Escalante

day 4: Grand Canyon in AM, PM in Sedona, drive to Holbrook, AZ
day5: Painted Dessert/Petrified Forest National Park in AM, PM Canyon D'Chiele, evening Monument Valley...stay in Kayenta
day6: Monument Vally in the AM, PM drive to Escalante.

day 4: Grand Canyon in AM drive 3 hrs to Monument Valley stay in Kayenta
day5: Monument Vally in the AM, drive to Torrey
day6: calf creek falls in AM, Capitol Reef in PM, stay in Escalante

Another alternative with that extra day....

day 8: Bryce all day through sunset, drive to Kanab
day 9: drive to Page, AZ for Antelope Canyon. stay in Page or Marble Canyon.
day 10 North rim of Grand Canyon, stay in Kanab.

Any reason you're staying in Tusayan and not in the GCNP? While the NP lodges aren't necessary good (other than El Tovar), neither are most rooms in Tusayan. And at least you'd be right there, can walk to the rim, etc.

For your dates (I put in June 16 for 2 nights), Yavapi and Bright Angel lodges appear to have availability. Not sure for how long though...


I've driven to and parked at the Canyon several times. Even in non-peak times, parking is a major CF. I'd highly recommend staying in-park if you possibly can.

In Tusayan there is a HI express and a Best Western that are rather new. You can get rooms there cheaper that in the Park.

As for parking they have a central visitor lot they can use and then use the shuttle buses. I dont recall if they have a bus that runs from Tusayan into the park.

tusayan is a 5-10 min drive from the park...not all that big of a deal.

Its just a matter of cost and their budget.

Just out of curiosity, are looking to wander off the beaten path and see some less known things? Or do you want to just stick to the main attractions?

I ask, b/c there are a lot of neat things to see which are a little less known, but will offer - at least what I consider to be - much better experiences. For example, if you stay 2 nights in escalante, you can do one day at Bryce and one day doing peek-a-boo/spooky.

I would also just do 3 nights in Kanab, and day trip it over to Antelope. You'll have to drive back across to return to Vegas anyway. I would again, try and draw for permits to Coyote Butte North. Also, buckskin gulch is right there, and is spectacular for a wander.

I know there is a lot to see in the NP's, but there is just as much, if not more, outside of the NP's that is equally worthy of your time. If you want to stick to the parks, no problem. Otherwise, I can make some other suggestions. Eitherway, it will be a great trip! You could spend your entire life in the southern half of Utah and not see it all.

Thanks everybody for your help!

We have booked flights and (most of the) hotels (many were already full or filling up quickly!)

Two more questions:

1) rental car. We just need a mid-size car for the 10 days in Nevada, Arizona and Utah. (LAS - LAS) There are so many car rental companies and the choice is overwhelming - does a "consolidator" website for car rental exist just as for air tickets? We don't have any loyalty to a car rental company - any reliable company is good for us.
2) Choice of hotels in Las vegas is also overwhelming. We just need a decent bed for the night for our first/last nights in the area - any recommendations?

Thanks again for all replies!

Are you certain of your travel plans???

You could use kayak to check out rates.

Use Hotwire to prepay for your rental.

Try and stick with larger brands...avis, hertz, dollar, Alamo, national, thrifty, budget.

With budget they restrict use to only California, Nevada, Utah, and Arizona.


You can make a reservation now, just done prepay, then watch for better prices to come up....then book if something cheaper come up. For 10 days expect it to be around $30/day plus taxes.

For some cheaper rates you could look off airport rental locations.

As for hotel stays...in your reservation of flights..what days did you do it for?

Las Vegas strip hotels charge high on Friday and Saturday night stays and lower Sunday-thursday stays.

To bookend your trip, stay at one on the strip like MGM, Excalibur, Luxor, etc. in that area.

If you arrive on say a Friday or Saturday look to stay off strip at a hotel outside of the strip in Vegas...much cheaper.

The wave lottery link

https://www.blm.gov/az/paria/index.cfm?usearea=CB

It's $5 for June it must be submitted by February 28 for lottery on march 1.

You select three dates to try and get access to it.

Consider the $5 a donation.

I almost always find that Avis, using AWD A074800 beats anything Kayak ever offers. Alamo in Las Vegas is also decent, in my experience, and usually has good rates.

You might also consider trying http://www.autoslash.com/ both to see what they can come up with and/or to track a rental you've made somewhere else.

My favorite is the Hilton Garden Inn south strip (it's actually away from the strip, less crazy therefore. Has very nice staff and an airport shuttle. Taking your car back the night before, getting the shuttle back to the hotel, and then using the shuttle to get to the airport in the morning can save some stress):
http://hiltongardeninn3.hilton.com/e...IGI/index.html

Before I forget......with the rental cars.....

In Vegas the recently built a new car rental facility so it may not be on maps/GPS you have. Last year I rented out of there and when I returned the car the rental location wasnt all that obvious because of poor signage.

It looks like a large parking garage but coming from the strip you may pass the entrance before realize you past it so you have to circle back.