Keep Virgin Australia/Velocity flying!
#62
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 233
If you love Qantas as much as it seems you do, I don't think you should be dancing on the grave of VA. There's a good possibility that whatever comes out of administration could be a lot stronger competitor and I'm not sure Qantas is as strong as you think it is.
#63
Join Date: May 2003
Programs: QF WP; VA Gold
Posts: 1,007
In the end this is the last part of the Borghetti experiment and although an unpredictable and once in a lifetime event has occurred the focus for to long was not on profits but on product. A damn good product but not a profitable one.
this will always lead to failure and is usually only advocated by those spending other people’s money. These same people probably wanted the the same to occur again to spend taxpayers money.
I expect Virgin II to be a focused and profitable business and governments will need to use their public policy leavers to ensure regional Australia is serviced by a competitive air transport industry.
I hope it works through and the majority of jobs saved. It is a shame for Scurrah that his vision was not able to be proven as I think he knew how vulnerable they were. He is a sharply focused operator and may end up running the new virgin.
#64
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York City
Programs: DL DM & 2MM; Marriott Titanium
Posts: 659
Amen! I, for one, have flown VA many times from JFK (via LAX) to MEL/BNE/SYD, and prefer both VA’s PE and Business products better than Delta. To boot, with Delta’s joint partnership, a J class ticket in VA works out great for RDM/MQM/MQD accumulation for DL medallions.
#65
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 20,923
Amen! I, for one, have flown VA many times from JFK (via LAX) to MEL/BNE/SYD, and prefer both VA’s PE and Business products better than Delta. To boot, with Delta’s joint partnership, a J class ticket in VA works out great for RDM/MQM/MQD accumulation for DL medallions.
#67
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 457
Qantas is stuck with very highly paid staff.
The new virgin whatever they'll be called, will have new ETAs, so staff will be paid less & at same time, will have to do more. More multitasking.
So on the highly profitable routes
SYD/MEL (2nd busiest route in world)
SYD/BNE
&
MEL/BNE
the new airline will have a definite cost advantage.
So qantas doesn't want to cut fares to match virgin mark 2 & in a recession, while many will be looking for cheaper fare options.
The new virgin whatever they'll be called, will have new ETAs, so staff will be paid less & at same time, will have to do more. More multitasking.
So on the highly profitable routes
SYD/MEL (2nd busiest route in world)
SYD/BNE
&
MEL/BNE
the new airline will have a definite cost advantage.
So qantas doesn't want to cut fares to match virgin mark 2 & in a recession, while many will be looking for cheaper fare options.
#68
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 457
Gone they are; no need to get all emotional mate. Let's see the next iteration of a second Australian airline..Ansett, Compass, Virgin....? I can hear Qantas saying "next..." Survival of the fittest. Management led staff on, spending money with no idea. Dick Smith summed it all up nicely.
They are in admin with most staff being paid.
#69
Join Date: May 2003
Programs: QF WP; VA Gold
Posts: 1,007
8000 of their 10000 (80%) staff are stood down on no pay. They may be getting their own entitlements if VAH is that generous or otherwise they are now being paid via the taxpayer under JobKeeper to the tune of $7.5m per week. (I say generous only because under a stand down in AU there is no lawful requirement for an employer to pay entitlements out ie annual leave but most that can do it do do it)
#71
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Toronto
Programs: AC35K
Posts: 39
We fly VA LAX to BNE business every year for our annual holidays to get away from the Toronto Winter. We also only fly VA internally in Australia. They are a far superior product to Qantas and have the best cabin crew.
I really hope they come back stronger.
I really hope they come back stronger.
Last edited by TorontoGooner; Apr 25, 2020 at 9:03 am
#73
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BKK/SIN/YYZ/YUL
Programs: DL, AC, Bonvoy, Accor, Hilton
Posts: 2,889
The post Covid19 environment is such that some airlines will need to be closed down. The international flight market is dead and will remain dead for at least another 6 months or more. The focus will be on domestic travel. The models predict minimal amounts of traffic over the next 3 months with it taking up to 2 years to recover. There just won't be enough traffic to support both Q and V during this time One has to go.Yes, there is legitimate concern that the loss of Virgin may allow airfares to rise. If there is a concern, the government can always go back to regulating airfares. Airfares will be increasing significantly, whether or not Virgin is still around. Consumers will have to accept that the airline industry will need fare increases to help keep them afloat and those increases could very well be 25% or more on some routes.
Throwing money at a foreign controlled company will hardly receive much support from the Australian public, no matter how wonderful the employees are. The people most at risk are the mainland Chinese shareholders who hold almost 40%. Seriously, how could anyone make a case to bail them out? No one will shed tears for the wealthy gang from for Singapore Airlines and Etihad if they take a haircut. Branson's plea for a bailout was soundly ridiculed by some of his wealthy peers .As Duncan Bannatyne said, let Branson put his own money in first. He can cash in some of his 4 billion pounds of assets or use it for collateral to get a bank loan if he is that passionate.
Throwing money at a foreign controlled company will hardly receive much support from the Australian public, no matter how wonderful the employees are. The people most at risk are the mainland Chinese shareholders who hold almost 40%. Seriously, how could anyone make a case to bail them out? No one will shed tears for the wealthy gang from for Singapore Airlines and Etihad if they take a haircut. Branson's plea for a bailout was soundly ridiculed by some of his wealthy peers .As Duncan Bannatyne said, let Branson put his own money in first. He can cash in some of his 4 billion pounds of assets or use it for collateral to get a bank loan if he is that passionate.
#74
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Programs: QF Gold, VA Plat, IHG Plat Amb, LCAH Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 3,844
Throwing money at a foreign controlled company will hardly receive much support from the Australian public, no matter how wonderful the employees are. The people most at risk are the mainland Chinese shareholders who hold almost 40%. Seriously, how could anyone make a case to bail them out? No one will shed tears for the wealthy gang from for Singapore Airlines and Etihad if they take a haircut. Branson's plea for a bailout was soundly ridiculed by some of his wealthy peers .As Duncan Bannatyne said, let Branson put his own money in first. He can cash in some of his 4 billion pounds of assets or use it for collateral to get a bank loan if he is that passionate.
Anyway, doesn't matter now. The deals required a level of government support that wasn't forthcoming. Now to see what comes out of the administration process.
#75
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 457
The post Covid19 environment is such that some airlines will need to be closed down. The international flight market is dead and will remain dead for at least another 6 months or more. The focus will be on domestic travel. The models predict minimal amounts of traffic over the next 3 months with it taking up to 2 years to recover. There just won't be enough traffic to support both Q and V during this time One has to go.Yes, there is legitimate concern that the loss of Virgin may allow airfares to rise. If there is a concern, the government can always go back to regulating airfares. Airfares will be increasing significantly, whether or not Virgin is still around. Consumers will have to accept that the airline industry will need fare increases to help keep them afloat and those increases could very well be 25% or more on some routes.
Throwing money at a foreign controlled company will hardly receive much support from the Australian public, no matter how wonderful the employees are. The people most at risk are the mainland Chinese shareholders who hold almost 40%. Seriously, how could anyone make a case to bail them out? No one will shed tears for the wealthy gang from for Singapore Airlines and Etihad if they take a haircut. Branson's plea for a bailout was soundly ridiculed by some of his wealthy peers .As Duncan Bannatyne said, let Branson put his own money in first. He can cash in some of his 4 billion pounds of assets or use it for collateral to get a bank loan if he is that passionate.
Throwing money at a foreign controlled company will hardly receive much support from the Australian public, no matter how wonderful the employees are. The people most at risk are the mainland Chinese shareholders who hold almost 40%. Seriously, how could anyone make a case to bail them out? No one will shed tears for the wealthy gang from for Singapore Airlines and Etihad if they take a haircut. Branson's plea for a bailout was soundly ridiculed by some of his wealthy peers .As Duncan Bannatyne said, let Branson put his own money in first. He can cash in some of his 4 billion pounds of assets or use it for collateral to get a bank loan if he is that passionate.
BUT with admin, like chapter 11 in USA much of the VA debt will be gone. Creditors will get cents in the dollar. Owners of leased aircraft, will get no more payments at current lease levels (they will at Qantas) & so new leases will be at fraction of what they have been getting. The world is now littered with 1000s of good aircraft parked. Fuel is cheap. If new VA can hedge fuel at current prices, it will have a massive cost advantage over Qantas. Qantas will have major problems with unions if they try to cut labour costs. This is why it has been reported, that there are over 10 cashed up serious buyers of VA, who will not be taking on much of old VA debt.
Last edited by OZFLYER86; Apr 24, 2020 at 9:31 pm