cityflyer369

I am moving from London to Australia soon. While I will continue flying with Skyteam on routes to Europe and South America (for which my AF/KL Platinum status will come in handy), I am currently looking for a frequent flyer programme that I would like to use when flying in Australia, in the South Pacific region (New Zealand and all these beautiful Pacific islands in the area), and for flights from Australia to the US.

As far as I can see, there are three reasonable options: Quantas, NZ Airpoints and Virgin Velocity. I am inclined to choose either NZ's Airpoints programme or VA's Velocity, as both NZ and VA offer affordable Permium Economy flights from Oz to the US. (QF is too expensive IMHO.)

For me, an important aspect when making a decision about the programme would be the options for upgrading from Premium Economy to Business that the programme offers.

Does anybody know what type of upgrade opportunities exist with VA?
(Upgrade with Velocity points? Velocity points plus cash? Cash upgrades on the day of departure? Etc.)

number_6

No upgrades for points on Velocity. Sometimes (rarely) Virgin sells upgrades for cash, but on V.Australia it is usually the fare difference for J. Velocity is one of the worst FF programs in the world for upgrades, so if that is your objective pick again.

Why not use DL SYD-LAX with your Skyteam status? Since you are considering NZ also then it isn't domestic Australian travel that is the objective (making QF the only choice -- lots of upgrades there). While QF has high fares it also has the best product on the route (hence the high fares).

cityflyer369

Thank you for your reply, number_6. It seems that all the programmes in the region come with their very particular pros and cons.

More about the background of my question:
As I work for a university, they will pay me only the cheapest ticket available. As most travel, in particular Oz-US, can be well planned ahead, this will typically mean discount economy. While I do not mind to pay the fare difference to VA's and NZ's Premium Economy myself, I could not afford paying more than this difference.

Why not QF?
From Australia, QF's Premium Economy class is almost as expensive as DL's Business class. If I factor in the 100% bonus miles I get with my AF/KL Platinum status, DL's Business is clearly cheaper. And in most situations, this will be beyond my budget. So for Oz-US, QF is not an option.

Why not DL?
As you know, you need pretty high Economy fare classes for upgrading to Business on DL. Actually, way more expensive than Premium Economy fares on VA or NZ. Apart from this, if DL had a Premium Economy class, I would probably take DL into account.

It seems that the FFPs that are big in the region come with very special advantages and disadvantages.
NZ: good for upgrades on Oz-US flights, okay for region around Australia, bad for intra-Australian flights
VA: bad for upgrades on Oz-US flights as you say, great for intra-Australia and region around Australia
QF: way too expensive for Oz-US (it's the national carrier, after all, so they can afford charging a premium), great for intra-Australia and region around Australia.

[Strangely enough, I would not have any "FFP issue" if I were flying only Oz-Europe (and not Oz-US). There is just so much more competition on the Kangaroo route than on the transpacific route.]

Cafe Specific

I think once you arrive in Australia, you'll need to change your mindset... for example, the AUS/NZ frequent flyer programs compared to the US ones are garbage. In a lot of cases, if you want to fly domestically within Australia, just opt for the cheap fares on Jetstar (awards QF points only on their expensive fares) or Virgin Blue (I don't like their plan, but have accumulated 6000 points). Sometimes QF comes within $10 of Virgin. You need not avail yourself to the likes of Tiger Airways- that's going too far down the gutter.
The cheap fares far outweigh any miles/points.

Many of the cheap NZ fares intra Pacific are very attractive, but don't earn points. Ditto many fares on SQ/TG- beware the booking classes- especially on V Australia.

As for Australia-USA, what can I say... either take a sleeping pill and sit in the seat for 14 hours on DL, or fly to HNL on Jetstar in starclass and get QF points.

If you'll be living in Sydney, once you see your monthy rent you probably won't be considering even the premium economy options...

cityflyer369

I appreciate your optimistic enthusiasm, Cafe.

I agree that QF, NZ and VA's programmes are worse than the major European and US programmes. Well, I guess there is just not enough competition in the region. If DL had a Premium Economy class or there were a major European or US programme with an Australian credit card, I would probably not consider joining one of the programmes in the region.

The StarClass-HNL idea is pretty good, in particular as I can continue with DL from HNL. I will think about it.

Regarding the rent: Actually I'm moving to Brisbane, so I won't be hit that hard. What is more, remember I'm moving from central London, so even Sydney would be a tenant's paradise for me (rent in Sydney is about half of what you'd pay in London for a similar flat). So I guess I will have more bucks for Premium Economy than now.

There is one negative thing you have forgotten to mention, which is a real downside: beer is more expensive down under than in London.

VH-RMD

maybe, but it tastes so much better...

number_6

There is one other good option if you are willing to go via HNL, and that is to go via Fiji instead on Air Pacific (FJ). They sell very cheap J fares ex-NAN, so you would have to buy 1-way ticket to NAN for positioning, and then buy NAN-LAX-NAN and NAN-SYD-NAN tickets separately. Their J is more like PE on QF and priced similarly, but earns J status credits on QFF (can also earn on AA, AS and some other airlines) and FJ has pretty good food. Just no beds, but very comfy seats and the sectors from NAN are somewhat shorter. Not a bad option (just avoid their fares ex-LAX or ex-Oz, you have to get Fiji origin fares, they are less than half the price).

Winglets747

My sentiments exactly, 100%.

FFPs in the region are not worth it.

Domestically I fly the cheapest, and when that entails QF or DJ I get the QF miles credited to AA or QF (depending on booking class) or DJ miles to DJ. Even with a 50% earn rate on AA when flying cheap QF Y class, I worked out 50% on AA is better than 100% on QF.

If you do want to stay with SkyTeam, one attractive option I haven't seen you mention yet is MH. Cheap Y fares (but not all, but certainly more than other carriers) will get you 100% miles on DL, but no EQM or lounge access. Still, better to keep everything in one kettle than have orphan miles.

Don't forget Garuda and Vietnam are in the process of joining SkyTeam, which will open more options for SkyTeam between Aus and Asia and beyond.

Are you moving to BNE permanently? If so and you're planning to do a lot of flying domestically, many find the QF program good for lounge access (but not much more). Keep in mind Virgin Blue is undergoing big changes on the premium front, so watch this space.

As for Y+, at the prices carriers offer it, it's not worth it. It's glorified economy. Save your money and go out to nice restaurants, stay at nicer hotels, etc.

doctorjosh

MH is not officially part of SkyTeam but it looks like they'll probably become an associate member by the end of this year. You can fly DJ around Australia and earn EQM on Enrich. This only started in November 2010. Flying VA between Oz and US will also earn you EQM on MH's Enrich. You'll also have the option of flying on DL and earning miles with Enrich but not EQMs though.

brenrox

I'm guessing DJ havn't introduced the ability to U/g on domestic flights?

qwertyuiop

there is the option of the Premium Economy taste test on domestic services.

http://www.velocityrewards.com.au/co.../PEUPGRADES.wm

Not a simple system but it has its uses. A revision is allegedly in the works as part of the velocity overhaul.

brenrox

Thanks, 600 points short for the first leg, but should have enough on the return. Thanks, it looks good!

notzac

Upgrade options are apparently on the way (there's a quote from a Virgin Australia rep on TOF but I can't find it right now) -- I imagine that it will be introduced as a part of the Velocity relaunch later this year.