Apr 30, 2020, 2:08 am
Last edit by: craigthemif
Flying Club is NOT owned by Virgin Atlantic the airline.
Flying Club is owned 51% by the Virgin Group (i.e. Sir Richard Branson's holding company) and 49% by Delta Airlines.
VS going into administration does NOT automatically mean the end of Flying Club!
Flying Club is owned 51% by the Virgin Group (i.e. Sir Richard Branson's holding company) and 49% by Delta Airlines.
VS going into administration does NOT automatically mean the end of Flying Club!
Virgin Airmiles - What is best to do in present situation?
Apr 28, 2020, 7:00 pm
#46
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,710
Has the transfer actually gone through yet?
Who knows how the agreement between VS and Hilton works but at some point VS is going to be asked to write a check for the Hilton points and I suspect that once it gets to the attention of whomever is controlling the purse strings over there that we might see VS reluctant to do so. They don't seem in position to be letting cash go out the door at the moment. Probably won't affect in process transfers but you have to believe that this possibility may not exist much longer.
Who knows how the agreement between VS and Hilton works but at some point VS is going to be asked to write a check for the Hilton points and I suspect that once it gets to the attention of whomever is controlling the purse strings over there that we might see VS reluctant to do so. They don't seem in position to be letting cash go out the door at the moment. Probably won't affect in process transfers but you have to believe that this possibility may not exist much longer.
Last edited by 36902BRF; Apr 28, 2020 at 7:05 pm
Apr 28, 2020, 7:04 pm
#47
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,710
It is certainly more than possible it won't be honored. Delta is more likely than other partners through to honor it in my book. I put close to zero chance on NH honoring and not a lot higher on AF/KLM.
Apr 28, 2020, 7:14 pm
#48
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,710
Trying to ride it out. Made the last of my bookings and have 0 pts left in my account (DL trans atlantic J and ANA F). I encourage everyone to do that or cash out via Hilton. If they go into administratorship, there's a 0% chance unused points survive (or their chart gets severely slashed). There's always the chance partners will honor the bookings though, albeit a small one.
Apr 29, 2020, 3:17 pm
#49
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London / Los Angeles
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Diamond Ambassador, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, BA Silver
Posts: 1,631
I would be surprised if Hilton did this. They have an agreement with Virgin and I really don't see them saying "oh yeah we let you transfer your VS miles to Hilton points but VS didn't pay us so we are taking your points away". I would personally not see this as a risk.
That said, since someone said it took 21 days for the transfer to complete. If VS went belly up before the points hit your HH account, then I could definitely imagine HH saying "tough luck".
Last edited by Enigma368; Apr 29, 2020 at 3:22 pm
Apr 30, 2020, 2:09 am
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barcelona, London, on a plane
Programs: BA Silver, TK E+, AA PP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 13,047
VS does NOT own Flying Club. If VS goes belly up then Flying Club can easily survive as a standalone entity.
Feel free to continue speculating, but it's about time that people started abbreviating Flying Club with something other than VS...
Apr 30, 2020, 2:35 am
#51
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 486
I don't know how many times I have to say this, so I put it in a wiki.
VS does NOT own Flying Club. If VS goes belly up then Flying Club can easily survive as a standalone entity.
Feel free to continue speculating, but it's about time that people started abbreviating Flying Club with something other than VS...
VS does NOT own Flying Club. If VS goes belly up then Flying Club can easily survive as a standalone entity.
Feel free to continue speculating, but it's about time that people started abbreviating Flying Club with something other than VS...
Let's say you have an NH ticket booked with FC miles and issued by VS (932 stock). If VS were to go under but FC survive, are you then left in a situation where your ticket becomes void (932 no longer accepted), even though the financial burden of the ticket lies with FC, so NH could still charge them for the flight?
I understand that it's possible for FC to survive if VS don't, but how could they issue award tickets without a mother airline? Technically, DL could step in if they are willing and able to, but it seems unlikely they would partner up with *A members (i.e. half of FC's current partners). If they were to kill the *A contracts then, effectively, FC would be reduced to DL, AF, and KL.
For the record, I don't wish for any of this to happen. For the time being we have decided to weather the storm and stick with VS/FC.
Apr 30, 2020, 2:43 am
#52
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barcelona, London, on a plane
Programs: BA Silver, TK E+, AA PP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 13,047
This leads to another dilemma: is it safer to have your miles tied up in a partner booking, or to leave them in your account?
Let's say you have an NH ticket booked with FC miles and issued by VS (932 stock). If VS were to go under but FC survive, are you then left in a situation where your ticket becomes void (932 no longer accepted), even though the financial burden of the ticket lies with FC, so NH could still charge them for the flight?
I understand that it's possible for FC to survive if VS don't, but how could they issue award tickets without a mother airline? Technically, DL could step in if they are willing and able to, but it seems unlikely they would partner up with *A members (i.e. half of FC's current partners). If they were to kill the *A contracts then, effectively, FC would be reduced to DL, AF, and KL.
For the record, I don't wish for any of this to happen. For the time being we have decided to weather the storm and stick with VS/FC.
Let's say you have an NH ticket booked with FC miles and issued by VS (932 stock). If VS were to go under but FC survive, are you then left in a situation where your ticket becomes void (932 no longer accepted), even though the financial burden of the ticket lies with FC, so NH could still charge them for the flight?
I understand that it's possible for FC to survive if VS don't, but how could they issue award tickets without a mother airline? Technically, DL could step in if they are willing and able to, but it seems unlikely they would partner up with *A members (i.e. half of FC's current partners). If they were to kill the *A contracts then, effectively, FC would be reduced to DL, AF, and KL.
For the record, I don't wish for any of this to happen. For the time being we have decided to weather the storm and stick with VS/FC.
If FC survives, and has the money to pay for partner awards - after all, it could still have the Amex contract in the US and almost certainly the Virgin Money one in the UK bringing in $$ / ££ - then your booked flights ought to be safe. Partnership agreements could indeed be torn up without a mother airline, but I'm not aware of any future award travel being cancelled when partnership agreements are cancelled or expire.
And finally, in an extreme scenario a DL or AF or even BA could come in and pay bankruptcy administrators $1 for a profitable loyalty programme full of customer data. You might end up with a mileage currency and partner options you may not necessarily want, but it shouldn't be worthless...
Apr 30, 2020, 7:56 am
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barcelona, London, on a plane
Programs: BA Silver, TK E+, AA PP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 13,047
Apr 30, 2020, 8:38 am
#55
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,710
BoA owns the co-brand relationship. Chase/Amex/Citi/Diners Club all transfer to Flying Club in US.
May 2, 2020, 8:00 pm
#57
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: TPA / JFK / LAX
Programs: DL 360, UA 1K, AA EXP, Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 304
May 3, 2020, 5:11 am
#59
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barcelona, London, on a plane
Programs: BA Silver, TK E+, AA PP, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 13,047
Why accumulate points only to never spend them? And then potentially have them disappear into thin air?
It's easy enough to debate what will happen with VS and Flying Club and be generally positive about it, but it's not a bad idea to reset your expectations of the value of a VS mile. The ANA sweetspot is going away sooner or later, and many Brits have zero interest in DL rewards.
Or you can choose some genuinely risk-free cash-saving options such as Eurostar vouchers or hotel points...
It's easy enough to debate what will happen with VS and Flying Club and be generally positive about it, but it's not a bad idea to reset your expectations of the value of a VS mile. The ANA sweetspot is going away sooner or later, and many Brits have zero interest in DL rewards.
Or you can choose some genuinely risk-free cash-saving options such as Eurostar vouchers or hotel points...