VS - Bad business seats and config

Reply

Old Dec 3, 18, 5:44 am
  #31  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 732
Originally Posted by Flexible preferences View Post
Fair point, although I think your emphasis on 'climbing over' is misleading! We are not talking about an assault course here, with a 6 foot wall topped with barbed wire. If the person in the aisle seat is reclined it is for most people just a slightly large step over them. It needn't require waking them either, although I do accept there will be some circumstances where they will be disturbed.
I can step over, but I always worry they'll be a sudden turbulence and I'll end up on the person trying to explain. I accept it's not that difficult for some, but pulling apart the difference between step over and climb over seems a bit over defensive of the situation, and you introduced assault course and barbed wire. For a typical 6'er it's is quite a high leg lift, and not really in the scope of a lot of less able or shorter people, and those in skirts may not wish to anyway. Arguments like this are a bit circular, we both clearly know what's involved, my position remains the same that an aisle where someone 'may' need to disturb you is not a direct access seat in the context of the discussion.
dougzz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 3, 18, 7:26 am
  #32  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 4,891
Originally Posted by dougzz View Post
I can step over, but I always worry they'll be a sudden turbulence and I'll end up on the person trying to explain. I accept it's not that difficult for some, but pulling apart the difference between step over and climb over seems a bit over defensive of the situation, and you introduced assault course and barbed wire. For a typical 6'er it's is quite a high leg lift, and not really in the scope of a lot of less able or shorter people, and those in skirts may not wish to anyway. Arguments like this are a bit circular, we both clearly know what's involved, my position remains the same that an aisle where someone 'may' need to disturb you is not a direct access seat in the context of the discussion.
But there is quite a difference in the impression given between 'climb over' and the more accurate 'step over' and I do think it is reasonable to mention that, the barbed wire wall was just an attempt at light-hearted humour (sorry!) . I don't really think your premise that a seat with direct aisle access isn't actually a seat with direct aisle access in the context of this discussion, just because if the neighbour's seat is occupied, and you are reclined, they may occasionally step over your lower legs. C'mon, it still has direct aisle access!
Flexible preferences is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 3, 18, 8:50 am
  #33  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 3,774
these minor differences surely only matter when choosing between two different airlines offering nonstop flights with flat beds for the same price both departing at your preferred time.
the idea that someone might pay a materially more fare (or connect or leave at an inconvenient time) for a VS flat bed vs. a BA flat bed vs. a DL flat bed is ridiculous.
Colin is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 3, 18, 9:00 pm
  #34  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: TPE LAS LHR
Programs: BA Meltdown Gold, OZ♦+ (flying BR/UA), WoH♦, HH♦, SPG Plat
Posts: 4,138
Originally Posted by Colin View Post
these minor differences surely only matter when choosing between two different airlines offering nonstop flights with flat beds for the same price both departing at your preferred time.
the idea that someone might pay a materially more fare (or connect or leave at an inconvenient time) for a VS flat bed vs. a BA flat bed vs. a DL flat bed is ridiculous.
I won't accept non-direct-aisle-access seating on longhauls. Period. I'll pay more (the fact I've never flown BA J, excepting one trip technically sold as J but in OF, is evidence of this), take an inconveniently-timed flight, even accept a connection, or go as far as not to travel at all. You can call it ridiculous if you want, but that's the reality.
gengar is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 5, 18, 10:52 am
  #35  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Miami, FL, USA
Posts: 3,841
Flying BOS-LHR in the summer (A333). I noticed in this picture of the new layout, it appears as though there may be some rows without windows? Is that true? I understand that you can barely see the window anyway, but still... Also, when flying as a couple, is it better to take two "window" seats, or K-G?

aviators99 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 5, 18, 6:02 pm
  #36  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by aviators99 View Post
Flying BOS-LHR in the summer (A333). I noticed in this picture of the new layout, it appears as though there may be some rows without windows? Is that true? I understand that you can barely see the window anyway, but still... Also, when flying as a couple, is it better to take two "window" seats, or K-G?
I know that picture is from the A333 review page, (or at least that's what I found when I googled it,) however I'm pretty sure that's the 787 in the picture, not the A333 - someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as I recall the A333 UC isn't missing any windows, although the windows that are there are tiny anyway.

I can't comment on flying as a couple on this plane as I generally travel solo, so I try to stick to the A seats, but I would think K-G would probably suit better. You also have the foot stool which can act as a seat if you want to sit/eat together.

Here is the A333 cabin

Last edited by Theirin; Dec 5, 18 at 6:06 pm Reason: Added link to image.
Theirin is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 7:20 am
  #37  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC Silver, VS Gold, Virgin Trains Traveller, Her Majesties Secret Service.
Posts: 336
Originally Posted by Theirin View Post
I know that picture is from the A333 review page, (or at least that's what I found when I googled it,) however I'm pretty sure that's the 787 in the picture, not the A333 - someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
You aren't wrong. The overhead bins are the dead giveaway, different design & handles to the A330.
CommanderB is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 8:55 am
  #38  
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 140
The VS J seat was such a disappointment to me - for all of the reasons highlighted by some posters above. Even BA's Club World seat (which I am not a fan of) is better.
AnaTravel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 9:03 am
  #39  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 33
Personally, my main issues with the VS seat are the lack of recline (it'd be nice to have another 20 degrees) and the inability to look out the window. I mostly like the rest. Especially the increasingly rare leather finish which is easier to wipe down and which I find more comfortable.

For the BA seat my biggest issues are that the storage is out of reach beneath my legs and beneath the tray table, and really awkward face off whenever the divider is down, the climb over, and the fact that the cabin crew often end up in your face (if you're in an aisle seat) when serving the window seat by leaning across you.

On that basis I consider it a tie overall in terms of the seat - but then I find VS's service to be better and more reliable, their planes are newer or nicer on the routes I fly (anything to avoid the BA 772s), they have WiFi and the lounges are on another level. Plus of course, if you're not BAEC Gold Virgin is 80-100 cheaper because you can choose your seats and VS don't block out seats like BA do.
Theirin is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 6, 18, 10:24 pm
  #40  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: near to SFO and LHR
Programs: VS Gold, BA Gold, B6, VX, AA, DL (and a legacy UA 2MM)
Posts: 2,033
Originally Posted by AnaTravel View Post
The VS J seat was such a disappointment to me - for all of the reasons highlighted by some posters above. Even BA's Club World seat (which I am not a fan of) is better.
Agree that BA's J seat is superior, if you can get a window seat, or better an upstairs window seat (has a nice large cabinet at your side). A much superior product in terms of privacy, seat position flexibility, and storage.
AnaTravel likes this.
StingWest is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 18, 2:04 am
  #41  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 4,891
Originally Posted by Theirin View Post
Pl...Plus of course, if you're not BAEC Gold Virgin is 80-100 cheaper because you can choose your seats and VS don't block out seats like BA do.
To expand on this, on BA seat selection is free for everyone at T-24. For Silvers and Golds it is free at any time, and for Bronzes it is free from 7 days before. Some other exceptions and anomalies apply for families etc. For frequent flyers, especially late-bookers, this system is loved because it means that when they book all the best seats aren't already snapped up.

What interests me is the commercial decision VS have taken in not adopting this policy in their J cabin. This will be costing VS. Imagine if say 4 business class passengers per flight would have paid on average, that is 320 revenue per flight of pure profit. Multiply by 2 for a return sector, multiply by the number of VS daily flights, and multiply by 365 and that would be what? 10m per year? OK a few assumptions here, but wow.
Flexible preferences is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 18, 3:10 am
  #42  
Moderator, Virgin Atlantic
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: www.V-Flyer.com
Programs: VS Red, Marriott Platinum Premier Elite and Lifetime Plat..
Posts: 2,025
Originally Posted by Flexible preferences View Post
........................ OK a few assumptions here, but wow.
Just a few! ;-)

Nick
Nottingham Nick is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 18, 4:04 am
  #43  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 4,891
Originally Posted by Nottingham Nick View Post
Just a few! ;-)

Nick
Haha OK point taken - but at least I put my neck out! What would yours be?
Flexible preferences is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 18, 4:53 am
  #44  
Moderator, Virgin Atlantic
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: www.V-Flyer.com
Programs: VS Red, Marriott Platinum Premier Elite and Lifetime Plat..
Posts: 2,025
Originally Posted by Flexible preferences View Post
.....What would yours be?
I would love to be able to answer that with some degree of certainty, but the executive decisions of the VS hierarchy remain a complete mystery to me.

They have clearly made some good decisions over the years, as the airline is still in the air; but some of the decisions made with regards to routes, ticket pricing, Flying Club changes, aircraft leasing, airline mergers, inflight 'enhancements' and particularly IT; to name but a few have been totally mind boggling from my outsiders, maybe ill-informed, viewpoint.

I have been a loyal VS flier since 1984, and have helped run the V-Flyer.com website for nearly 15 years. I have seen the airline's slide from what I would term as being a 'customer friendly & innovative entity' to 'just another airline' run by faceless, personality free beancounters.

That is maybe a little harsh, and the obvious come back is my first point, they are doing something right, because they are still flying.

I remain a loyal flier, I have SFO and HKG trips booked already for next year, but for our CPT trip, I think we will be tempted to look elsewhere.

Nick
Nottingham Nick is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 8, 18, 5:15 am
  #45  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by Flexible preferences View Post
To expand on this, on BA seat selection is free for everyone at T-24. For Silvers and Golds it is free at any time, and for Bronzes it is free from 7 days before. Some other exceptions and anomalies apply for families etc. For frequent flyers, especially late-bookers, this system is loved because it means that when they book all the best seats aren't already snapped up.

What interests me is the commercial decision VS have taken in not adopting this policy in their J cabin. This will be costing VS. Imagine if say 4 business class passengers per flight would have paid on average, that is 320 revenue per flight of pure profit. Multiply by 2 for a return sector, multiply by the number of VS daily flights, and multiply by 365 and that would be what? 10m per year? OK a few assumptions here, but wow.
It's interesting though, isn't it? Because granted I don't fly with a huge number of different airlines, but BA is the only one I've flown with that charges for seat assignments in Business - to the best of my knowledge, BA, not VS, is the outlier. Speaking personally, it contributes to my perception of BA is an airline that is more interested in squeezing every penny out of people than they are in providing a good service. And it also means that BA's prices to your average flyer actually aren't competitive for the full service package (they just make it look that way by hiding the additional cost).

That (service) is ultimately why I stopped flying BA when I had a good alternative, because I was tired of paying for premium cabins when well over 60% of my flights had really poor cabin crew or attitudes - I got fed up with paying thousands of pounds for tickets only to be treated like I'm a nuisance. And I am someone who never uses the call bell, never makes a fuss, the most I might ask for is a drink or something now and again when a crew member is passing through. Having said that, I have also had some absolutely wonderful BA cabin crews who I can't credit enough, but sadly, they were not the norm.

I won't expand on that any more as its straying too far off-topic, but suffice to say its the principle of BA charging for seat assignment in Business that doesn't sit well with me, rather than the practicality. Full service should mean full service in premium cabins, and they shouldn't penalize people who plan ahead.

Last edited by Theirin; Dec 8, 18 at 5:17 am Reason: Clarity
Theirin is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: