Downgraded - due to faulty fleet being taken out of service
Dec 10, 2017, 6:51 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 4
Downgraded - due to faulty fleet being taken out of service
Hi,
I have been contacted by my travel agent to say that my VA flight in PE is being downgraded to E. After contacting VA they have told me that a fault has been found in the Manchester VA fleet and they are having to loan delta planes. However on the Man to SFO route they are buying an airberlin aircraft which won't have PE seating. At this stage I've been offered no reimbursement as unfortunately due to me booking via a 3rd party OTA I have to go via the agent and Virgin are stating they can't deal with me directly.
Has anyone experienced this with Virgin? Ive asked for a first choice move to London but this was my suggestion no theirs and they agents have simply stated they will see what they can do. As of yet there has been no mention of reimbursement so I'm worried they are going to say as its months in advance they don't owe anything however the PE cost was £900 per ticket compared to a rather cheap £310 economy.
I know there were some old posts in the BA forum, but the posters have never updated the outcome and its mainly been at the airport downgrades. There was also some confusion around whether its the total ticket cost or effected leg (this is outbound only)
Any advice is appreciated, Thanks all
Becs
I have been contacted by my travel agent to say that my VA flight in PE is being downgraded to E. After contacting VA they have told me that a fault has been found in the Manchester VA fleet and they are having to loan delta planes. However on the Man to SFO route they are buying an airberlin aircraft which won't have PE seating. At this stage I've been offered no reimbursement as unfortunately due to me booking via a 3rd party OTA I have to go via the agent and Virgin are stating they can't deal with me directly.
Has anyone experienced this with Virgin? Ive asked for a first choice move to London but this was my suggestion no theirs and they agents have simply stated they will see what they can do. As of yet there has been no mention of reimbursement so I'm worried they are going to say as its months in advance they don't owe anything however the PE cost was £900 per ticket compared to a rather cheap £310 economy.
I know there were some old posts in the BA forum, but the posters have never updated the outcome and its mainly been at the airport downgrades. There was also some confusion around whether its the total ticket cost or effected leg (this is outbound only)
Any advice is appreciated, Thanks all
Becs
Dec 10, 2017, 8:38 am
#2
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Presuming you meant VS (Virgin Atlantic) rather than VA (Virgin Australia). In that case, you are due a reimbursement of 75% of the ticket segment base fare. If the base fare really was GBP 900, you are due a refund of GBP 675 and the ticket will have cost you GBP 225. I am presuming hat the 900 includes taxes, so the refund will be a bit less.
You can't claim EC 261/2004 until after you have flown.
It is not clear when your travel is or what you want. It is possible that the third-party vendor might reroute you on another carrier's PE, but you will have to call and figure that out.
Your claim will be against VS and it will be for VS to settle with the third-party.
As an aside, unless there are truly extraordinary savings, don't deal with third-parties. You may rest assured that if you wind up in Economy on VS that it will take several rounds of arguing, if not resort to MCOL to see your refund.
You can't claim EC 261/2004 until after you have flown.
It is not clear when your travel is or what you want. It is possible that the third-party vendor might reroute you on another carrier's PE, but you will have to call and figure that out.
Your claim will be against VS and it will be for VS to settle with the third-party.
As an aside, unless there are truly extraordinary savings, don't deal with third-parties. You may rest assured that if you wind up in Economy on VS that it will take several rounds of arguing, if not resort to MCOL to see your refund.
Dec 10, 2017, 9:36 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 4
Thanks Often 1 - yes Virgin Atlantic Manchester - San Fran. Its not till May 2018 so plenty of time to work out. Unfortunately for us its for my parents 30th Wedding anniversary and was a Xmas Present. My Dad has never flown long haul so I wanted him to be more comfortable (he's 6.5). Oh well - not much you can do and we know its not the airlines fault. We would rather be safe.
Dec 10, 2017, 12:53 pm
#5
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dorchester, Dorset UK
Programs: BA Gold, BMI, ANA, HH Blue, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,063
When BA had their IT meltdown, I had to rebook 9 seats, bought through an online TA. At first they didn’t want to know and I had to book new seats. I then went through a laborious process being passed from pillar to post, but eventually got satisfaction.
Some TA’s can be really helpful so I hope you are one of the lucky ones.
Some TA’s can be really helpful so I hope you are one of the lucky ones.
Dec 10, 2017, 1:04 pm
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 20,994
...I have been contacted by my travel agent to say that my VA flight in PE is being downgraded to E. After contacting VA they have told me that a fault has been found in the Manchester VA fleet and they are having to loan Delta planes. However on the Man to SFO route they are buying an Airberlin aircraft which won't have PE seating. At this stage I've been offered no reimbursement as unfortunately due to me booking via a 3rd party OTA I have to go via the agent and Virgin are stating they can't deal with me directly.
Some to most OTA's are not good to deal with. They are basically computer programmers.
I always suspect many OTA agents on the phone have never flown in any aircraft and may never have seen an aircraft close up.
An EC 261/2004 claim, if eligible, is against the airline
Dec 10, 2017, 1:25 pm
#7
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 508
Whilst not the same issue, I had a MAN-BOS flight that was changed to MAN-JFK-BOS. This didn’t suit us as we wanted direct flights (two night trip) so VS customer service pro-actively offered us the flight from LHR instead. Unfortunately, this left later so didn’t suit either. I asked if we could switch our destination to Washington and they did. So we went from MAN-BOS to LHR-IAD. No fees to change either.
As as I say, not the same, but does show that they can and will make changes.
Data point - this was an upper class booking.
As as I say, not the same, but does show that they can and will make changes.
Data point - this was an upper class booking.
Dec 11, 2017, 1:52 am
#8
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Londinium
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 929
There's a page on the Virgin website outlining th options. It's under News or something like that. Basically if you want to fly PE you have the option of going MAN-LHR-SFO. Not sure whether you have to pay your own way to LHR, but it may be something to consider,
Dec 11, 2017, 3:12 am
#9
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC Silver, VS Gold, Virgin Trains Traveller, Her Majesties Secret Service.
Posts: 407
I book all my travel through a corporate travel agent (not my choice believe me). So VS cannot deal with your ticket, it has to be via the TA.
But in this scenario, they usually come to me to offer options.
Asking to go from LHR is perfectly reasonable, and the effort should be made to honour your original class of travel and VS themselves have shown a fair amount of flexibility on this already. So if the TA isn't allowing it, they are probably just being stubborn, and I would definitely call multiple times to hopefully end up with someone helpful. It's probably a bit of work on their end, but stick with it.
If all else fails, 75% of the ticket price back is not a bad deal.
But in this scenario, they usually come to me to offer options.
Asking to go from LHR is perfectly reasonable, and the effort should be made to honour your original class of travel and VS themselves have shown a fair amount of flexibility on this already. So if the TA isn't allowing it, they are probably just being stubborn, and I would definitely call multiple times to hopefully end up with someone helpful. It's probably a bit of work on their end, but stick with it.
If all else fails, 75% of the ticket price back is not a bad deal.
Dec 11, 2017, 6:17 am
#10
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 234
VS are offering the following:For passengers booked to travel in Premium Economy cabin:·
We will offer partial refunds on their Premium Economy booked seat if the passenger is rebooked into Economy cabin on the same flight.Fare recalculation for Seat Only ticketed and IT un-ticketed please see below:·
Original K/H booking classes recalculate using fares at time of creation in N class for the sector updated to Economy.·
Original S/W booking classes recalculate using fares at time of creation in Q class for sector updated to Economy.
Upon calculation please request the refund through BSP.·
Passengers downgraded from Premium Economy to Economy cabin will be offered an extra-legroom seat at no additional cost subject to seat availability, and provided travel is on the original flight and departure date. o This will be implemented after the Schedule change at the soonest opportunity.
Alternative Options
If the options offered are unsuitable, customers may be offered one of the following alternatives:·
Customers on the affected flights may rebook to travel in Premium Economy on any VS operated flight between their original Origin and Destination between 01 January 2018 and 30 November 2018, at no additional cost, subject to availability in the same cabin.o If original booking class is not available, please book lowest available. ·
Customers on the affected flights may rebook to travel in Premium Economy on VS operated or VS marketed (VS*) flights between their original Origin and Destination on the same travel date, at no additional cost, subject to availability in the same cabin.o If original booking class is not available, please book lowest available. ·
Customers on the affected flights may rebook to travel from/to London Heathrow (LHR) or London Gatwick (LGW) to take a direct flight to/from their original origin/destination, subject to availability in the same cabin E.g. MAN-JFK change to LHR-JFK.o If original booking class is not available, please book lowest available. o
Travel to/from the alternative airport will be at customers’ expense. ·
Customers on the affected flights may rebook to travel to an alternative destination with no change fee, subject to availability in the same cabin and any applicable fare difference.o If original booking class is not available, please book lowest available. ·
Customers on the affected flights may upgrade to Upper Class cabin on the same flight with no change fee, subject to availability and any applicable fare difference.
If your Travel Agent wont comply with the above, they're in the wrong and you need to push them.
We will offer partial refunds on their Premium Economy booked seat if the passenger is rebooked into Economy cabin on the same flight.Fare recalculation for Seat Only ticketed and IT un-ticketed please see below:·
Original K/H booking classes recalculate using fares at time of creation in N class for the sector updated to Economy.·
Original S/W booking classes recalculate using fares at time of creation in Q class for sector updated to Economy.
Upon calculation please request the refund through BSP.·
Passengers downgraded from Premium Economy to Economy cabin will be offered an extra-legroom seat at no additional cost subject to seat availability, and provided travel is on the original flight and departure date. o This will be implemented after the Schedule change at the soonest opportunity.
Alternative Options
If the options offered are unsuitable, customers may be offered one of the following alternatives:·
Customers on the affected flights may rebook to travel in Premium Economy on any VS operated flight between their original Origin and Destination between 01 January 2018 and 30 November 2018, at no additional cost, subject to availability in the same cabin.o If original booking class is not available, please book lowest available. ·
Customers on the affected flights may rebook to travel in Premium Economy on VS operated or VS marketed (VS*) flights between their original Origin and Destination on the same travel date, at no additional cost, subject to availability in the same cabin.o If original booking class is not available, please book lowest available. ·
Customers on the affected flights may rebook to travel from/to London Heathrow (LHR) or London Gatwick (LGW) to take a direct flight to/from their original origin/destination, subject to availability in the same cabin E.g. MAN-JFK change to LHR-JFK.o If original booking class is not available, please book lowest available. o
Travel to/from the alternative airport will be at customers’ expense. ·
Customers on the affected flights may rebook to travel to an alternative destination with no change fee, subject to availability in the same cabin and any applicable fare difference.o If original booking class is not available, please book lowest available. ·
Customers on the affected flights may upgrade to Upper Class cabin on the same flight with no change fee, subject to availability and any applicable fare difference.
If your Travel Agent wont comply with the above, they're in the wrong and you need to push them.
Dec 11, 2017, 8:33 pm
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 4
Thank you all for the responses.
unfortunately the situation has got worse the TA ended up completely cancelling my booking after I called to accept the partial re-imbursement. She was a trainee and she had misunderstood what was going on. I found out at midnight when I received a refund receipt. Calling back and being put on hold for 1.5hrs whilst they tried to sort the situation. TA have admitted she never asked if I wanted to cancel and it's recorded me saying repeatly that I was calling to accept the offer.
It now turns out virgin have resold our return san fran to man PE seats (the leg unaffected by the downgrade) and there's no availability. My partner is on a separate reservation to myself and daughters etc as he didn't know whether he could come. So now it turns out he's going and we are not.
the TA have asked for 24 hours to review - but all a big mess really. I think I've learnt a big lesson saving a few hundred quid by booking with a TA. Not worth it.
unfortunately the situation has got worse the TA ended up completely cancelling my booking after I called to accept the partial re-imbursement. She was a trainee and she had misunderstood what was going on. I found out at midnight when I received a refund receipt. Calling back and being put on hold for 1.5hrs whilst they tried to sort the situation. TA have admitted she never asked if I wanted to cancel and it's recorded me saying repeatly that I was calling to accept the offer.
It now turns out virgin have resold our return san fran to man PE seats (the leg unaffected by the downgrade) and there's no availability. My partner is on a separate reservation to myself and daughters etc as he didn't know whether he could come. So now it turns out he's going and we are not.
the TA have asked for 24 hours to review - but all a big mess really. I think I've learnt a big lesson saving a few hundred quid by booking with a TA. Not worth it.
Dec 13, 2017, 3:30 pm
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 4
An update, after multiple talks the fights have been re-instated however all legs have now been downgraded due to aircraft change (no premium economy). I have been advised that the 75% refund only applies to the airfare which of the £800 per ticket equates to around £300 of airfare. Therefore Im told you do not get it on the whole ticket price sale i.e. its exempt of taxes and fees. The interesting thing about this is that as a premium passenger you pay £156 per passenger taxes ADP against £73 economy however no refund is paid against taxes only pure airfare. If anyone has experience on how we go about debating this I would really appreciate the advice
Dec 14, 2017, 1:45 pm
#14
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 234
I would absolutely argue that. Price up a London to SFO in Y and taxes are £170, in PE they’re £240. That difference is because you’re flying a premium cabin. If you’re not flying a premium cabin, that difference in taxes should absolutely be refunded.
Dec 14, 2017, 2:52 pm
#15
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
The TA is correct if it has properly calculated what is airfare and what is a tax. But, as others note, when the ticket is repriced, the APD portion of the taxes drops and that difference should be refunded.
My suggestion to you is not to address the refund issue until after you have flown. When you are back from your trip, sit down and pull together your original e-ticket receipt in PE, the new e-ticket receipt and the faring information. Calculate the 75% of the airfare + the APD difference and figure out whether you got what you are entitled to or close enough (sometimes more). If you are about even, forget it. If you are owed anything significant, make a claim under EC 261/2004 to VS for the remainder.
Sometimes a TA cannot be avoided, but intermediaries only complicate matters when things go wrong and the travel itself is relatively straightforward. VS offered a rebooking via LHR which made eminent sense and could have been taken care of in one quick call. But, the TA not only did not immediately advise of what VS was offering, but then cancelled a ticket and it was pure luck, e.g. availability, that got OP fack onboard.
My suggestion to you is not to address the refund issue until after you have flown. When you are back from your trip, sit down and pull together your original e-ticket receipt in PE, the new e-ticket receipt and the faring information. Calculate the 75% of the airfare + the APD difference and figure out whether you got what you are entitled to or close enough (sometimes more). If you are about even, forget it. If you are owed anything significant, make a claim under EC 261/2004 to VS for the remainder.
Sometimes a TA cannot be avoided, but intermediaries only complicate matters when things go wrong and the travel itself is relatively straightforward. VS offered a rebooking via LHR which made eminent sense and could have been taken care of in one quick call. But, the TA not only did not immediately advise of what VS was offering, but then cancelled a ticket and it was pure luck, e.g. availability, that got OP fack onboard.