stuart_f

Yes, it needs a total re-write! I've neglected it for far too long.

Perhaps a job for next week since my workload is looking reasonable then.

CosmicGirl

Good to know, thank you! The only available option is upgrading the outbound leg to PE but whether I go ahead with it or not will depend on the additional OOP cost. The original ticket has an exceptionally low YQ (€90, no tricks), so I'll see what they say.

It may be a bit out of date, but I feel your OP still contains a lot of useful info so thank you for writing it.

CosmicGirl

Availability for my outbound flight popped back up today and I just got off the phone with VS to find out how much the OOP charge would be. However, I have the feeling that they wanted to overcharge me. Could someone please let me know if I'm right?

My itinerary:
BRU-LHR on BA followed by LGW-MCO on VS on the same PNR and with a 4-hour connection.

To upgrade the LGW-MCO leg to PE I was quoted miles + £78. I was expecting to be charged for a higher YQ, but this particular number rang a bell: it's the difference in APD between Y and PE from LGW to MCO. A quick google revealed that others who have upgraded LGW-MCO with an itinerary originating in the UK paid £78, as well. However, as an ex-EU pax with a connection under 24 hours I should be exempt of APD, so it shouldn't be charged at all. That said, if my logic pans out then that would mean that they don't charge you for higher YQ when upgrading with miles. Is this correct or just wishful thinking on my part?

For comparison: I also found a report of people who upgraded from Y to PE ex-BFS and they only had to pay in miles because Northern Ireland is also exempt of APD.

stuart_f

The ONLY difference for PE is the additional APD which rises from £78 to £156 and, as you rightly identify, doesn't apply to your booking.

CosmicGirl

I appreciate the reply, thanks.
What about the YQ, though? My ticket only includes €90 in YQ for the whole journey and it's not tricked. For some reason I can't price up the itinerary on the correct dates in any class at the moment, but, in January I'm getting €200 for both Y and PE. I was expecting them to charge the difference, so €55 for one leg, yet he came back with the APD.

stuart_f

I'm seeing the same YQ for Y and PE. Perhaps the hamster isn't clever enough to notice the connection because it's not on VS. You could ask them to send it to be manually priced it and see if that gets a more sensible response.

CosmicGirl

I just gave it another go and this time the agent claimed he spoke to ticketing. He insisted that there is a £78 difference in tax to go from Y to PE and according to him I am not exempt because I'm flying into LHR and out of LGW, so it is in fact not a through-journey but a split one. Right.
When I asked which tax this was specifically he spoke to a manager and came back with the following: the government charges different taxes for Y, PE, and J so you have to pay the difference, which is £78. APD is the only tax that is levied by the government and that increases with travel class, yet he danced around using that term.

Can you recommend another phone number than the general Flying Club one where I might have more luck?

stuart_f

I'm sure you are well aware but just to lend support; you are right and VS are wrong. The good news is that they have finally confirmed that it's APD they are trying to collect so this becomes an issue of proving them wrong. There's no such thing as APD applied to "split" journeys. A connection is a connection provided it's under 24 hours irrespective of arrival or departure points. Over 24 hours and it becomes a stopover and APD is due.

Perhaps try the Twitter team and spell out exactly what's gone wrong and why you know there shouldn't be additional APD? I find that they tend to be a little more measured in their responses since they have to be put in writing.

CosmicGirl

Thanks for your support.
I gave it one final go the day before my departure and ended up with a fairly new agent who was eager to learn. She (nor her neighbours) had ever come across an itinerary like mine so she put me on hold multiple times to escalate matters and find out for herself what should be charged. I was fortunate to stumble upon someone so eager to learn because she spoke with ticketing and managed to get me the upgrade for 11200 miles without APD . It was a long call and she kept apologising for having to learn things but I was grateful she put in the effort.

wanderlustFL

Hi,

I purchased r/t tickets for 2 originating in MIA traveling to Malta via LHR, where the over water segments are on VA in economy classic. This morning I redeemed points to move to UC on the outbound MIA-LHR segment. I was charged "additional taxes"---VA representative exact words---of $307 per ticket plus the miles for the upgrade. I then went to the ITA Matrix website to confirm appropriateness of the VA imposed fees for the outbound segment. I note that VA charges a YQ, in addition to $28 USD in modest taxes, of approx $175 USD in coach per ticket, and that rises to $553 USD in UC. So, that leads me to believe that on flights originating in the U.S. VA is really just charging their own carrier imposed fee, which has nothing to do with taxes imposed by governmental authorities either in the U.S. or U.K. And, I note that the YQ differential coach to UC is about $378. I am not sure why I was charged 307 instead but perhaps I should consider myself lucky. I am looking to you all to confirm that my assessment is accurate. And, if not, how would I convince VA otherwise (if indeed the imposed extra fees I was charged are too high). I have tried VA's twitter account in the past for other reasons, but met with no success.

greenarmy

Virgin often charges lower YQ on award tickets than on normal cash ones. The fact that the difference is lower is also not necessarily cause for concern. That the agent said additional taxes rather than additional surcharges is just Virgin trying to maintain the facade that their fuel surcharges are not just them taking extra money because they can.

Maestro Ramen

Hello, is the following calculation correct please?

MAN-JFK return departing Sat 5 Oct. returning Sun 13th Oct

Premium Economy: price on website: 819.70

Method one: get a reward ticket up front

Will cost 35k Miles +£438.50 tax (blimey!), given the value of the ticket above, that's roughly:
1.09 pence/mile value


Method two: get an eligible Eco ticket and upgrade

Economy Classic - Which VS tells me is upgradeable on the website - will cost £448.70. The website also tells me that an upgrade is only 17.4k Miles though. So this would be:
2.13 pence/mile value

.....if there was no surcharge at all. However, even if the surcharge was up to £150 you'd still get better value out of your Miles that with method one.


Q1: Did I get this more or less right?

Q2: How much is that infamous surchage!!

Q3: Assuming that the surcharge would be up to but less than £100, you'd get over 1.5 pence/mile value. Given that Virgin sells miles for 1.5 pence, would that suddenly make it viable to purchase miles to travel?

Bonus Question: I ran a few calculations like the above for all classes, and the values are same-ish across the board, not a bad deal at all, but looks like NH still the best way to redeem FC Miles?

greenarmy

Q1: You have not included the miles earned if you pay for a cash ticket - approximately 3K on Eco Classic and 6K in Premium, which will reduce the ppm, as rather than costing you 35k miles a straight award really leaves you 41k miles worse off.

Q2: The extra taxes are £90, but I believe that as the YQ on revenue tickets is the same in Economy as in PE you don't get charged any extra YQ. So it would be around £90.

Q3: Yes in theory; but why bother in this? Given your saving is only the spread between 1.5pppm and your implied value then faffing around with buying miles to save £5-10, and risking the award availibity dissappearing makes little sense.

Bonus Q: Depends on how you value miles. The most valuable redemption to you is the one for a flight you *had* to be on anyway. If you wouldn't pay £5k for a first class flight to japan, then it is very hard to argue you are getting the best value, although it is clear you are getting an experience.

Bonus Answer: If you are booking a hotel or car hire in New York you may find you can get a cheaper straight to PE ticket through a travel agent package than the £820 you are comparing too.

Maestro Ramen

Thank you very much for the answers - good point about the cash ticket actually providing miles, hadn't thought about it.

I had thought about the possibility to get a cheaper flight with another airline that doesn't credit miles, and had done some side calculations with it. Now that you gave me the value of the surcharge (thanks!) I can update it so:

With Reward Flight, you get 1.08 ppm for VS flight, and 0.86 ppm compared to cheapest you can buy (Thomson). You also get no miles for your trip, so you "lose out" on 6k

With Upgrade, you get 1.61 ppm for VS flight, and 1.16 ppm compared to cheapest. You also get 3k miles for your trip for the eco fare (but you "lose out" on the other 3k).


Everything said it seems that Upgrade is the best way to spend Miles when booking on VS.

As for how I use my Miles, I have family and friends in Japan as well as N/A so spoiled for choice To be frank I would not spend 5k on a F ticket --- J is as good as I could ever need. However the idea to try out F with 120k Miles does seem strangely appealing somehow!

whoffie24

I have a strange situation. I was looking at booking a premium economy EWR-TLV. Going all the way through the booking process, the labels for these seats are "Premium". The weird part is that this is a dual inventory fare and it books into O. When I called to ask about the cost to upgrade, the CSR said that I would first have to buy up to an upgradeable fare. I pointed out that the website says K is the only premium fare class ineligible for upgrade. He said that my fare was considered economy. I found the following in the fare conditions:

Has anyone had experience upgrading a DIF?