Virgin Atlantic Airmiles Joke
Dec 16, 2015, 10:51 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 8
Virgin Atlantic Airmiles Joke
Hi all,
I was wondering if I could get some advice. I have been saving my airmiles on my Virgin Atlantic credit card for a trip to the Caribbean. I had intended to pay in cash and then use my miles (I have 24K presently) to upgrade to first class.
Currently, a regular return in economy is £577 for the dates I want to go, which is a good price. So I called up to find out about upgrading with my miles which is when the dropped the joke: I can only upgrade from a flexible economy ticket, not a regular economy ticket.
I went back and checked the prices:
flexible economy: £1,921.86
first class: £2,018.86
Are they even for real??? What is the point of offering a rewards card which doesn't actually offer anything? To upgrade one way, I'd have to spend 22.5K miles so that means each mile is worth 0.004p. LOL.
Is this the case with all airmile cards? Is there another one I can use which is actually meaningful?
Many thanks,
TPG.
I was wondering if I could get some advice. I have been saving my airmiles on my Virgin Atlantic credit card for a trip to the Caribbean. I had intended to pay in cash and then use my miles (I have 24K presently) to upgrade to first class.
Currently, a regular return in economy is £577 for the dates I want to go, which is a good price. So I called up to find out about upgrading with my miles which is when the dropped the joke: I can only upgrade from a flexible economy ticket, not a regular economy ticket.
I went back and checked the prices:
flexible economy: £1,921.86
first class: £2,018.86
Are they even for real??? What is the point of offering a rewards card which doesn't actually offer anything? To upgrade one way, I'd have to spend 22.5K miles so that means each mile is worth 0.004p. LOL.
Is this the case with all airmile cards? Is there another one I can use which is actually meaningful?
Many thanks,
TPG.
Dec 16, 2015, 11:18 am
#2
Moderator, Virgin Atlantic
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: www.V-Flyer.com
Programs: VS Red, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium - earned out of our own pocket!.
Posts: 2,392
Welcome to Flyertalk.
The first thing to say is that Virgin Atlantic don't have any first class seats - they offer Upper Class, which is a business class product.
The rules about buying upgradable fare buckets that you have discovered are not new. Like them or not, they are the rules of the scheme.
There are a lot of people on this board and others that believe that buying M class economy fares and upgrading with points is the best value for the points. Personally, it isn't something I do - I prefer to use my points for straight upper redemptions.
I am not disputing your maths, but you haven't said how far in advance you are trying to book the tickets, or if you have looked at alternative dates.
Edit to add link to explanation for how to upgrade. http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/gb/en...d-flights.html
Nick
The first thing to say is that Virgin Atlantic don't have any first class seats - they offer Upper Class, which is a business class product.
The rules about buying upgradable fare buckets that you have discovered are not new. Like them or not, they are the rules of the scheme.
There are a lot of people on this board and others that believe that buying M class economy fares and upgrading with points is the best value for the points. Personally, it isn't something I do - I prefer to use my points for straight upper redemptions.
I am not disputing your maths, but you haven't said how far in advance you are trying to book the tickets, or if you have looked at alternative dates.
Edit to add link to explanation for how to upgrade. http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/gb/en...d-flights.html
Nick
Dec 16, 2015, 11:58 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 8
i think virgin need to be clearer that you can't upgrade from a regular economy ticket.
Dec 16, 2015, 1:16 pm
#5
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Oxford
Programs: Skyteam Elite+, VS Red, HHonours Diamond, Accor Plat
Posts: 629
Welcome to FlyerTalk, however, I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.
The OP seems to want to have a rant about Virgin Atlantic's Flying Club miles, however, the problem with this is that the OP has fundamentally misunderstood the fare classes and how to book an upgradable ticket.
If you want some advice, please ask - don't rant. With 24K miles you can't actually upgrade Economy to Upper, you are 1K miles short (the upgrade is 25K not 22.5K). Assuming you can generate the missing miles - which isn't hard, ask if you need help - I can book a ticket that will let me do the upgrade from London (LGW) to Barbados (BGI) for £633 so VS miles are, in fact a great thing!
The OP seems to want to have a rant about Virgin Atlantic's Flying Club miles, however, the problem with this is that the OP has fundamentally misunderstood the fare classes and how to book an upgradable ticket.
If you want some advice, please ask - don't rant. With 24K miles you can't actually upgrade Economy to Upper, you are 1K miles short (the upgrade is 25K not 22.5K). Assuming you can generate the missing miles - which isn't hard, ask if you need help - I can book a ticket that will let me do the upgrade from London (LGW) to Barbados (BGI) for £633 so VS miles are, in fact a great thing!
Last edited by stuart_f; Dec 16, 2015 at 1:26 pm
Dec 16, 2015, 2:05 pm
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,196
i am looking at dates in oct/nov of next year, so quite far in advance. although i'm not sure that it matters. i'm talking about the principle of it: what's the point in using these schemes if 22.5K miles only equates to a few quid?!
i think virgin need to be clearer that you can't upgrade from a regular economy ticket.
i think virgin need to be clearer that you can't upgrade from a regular economy ticket.
There are different ways of using miles but it's clear you haven't looked at ways such as combi fares or miles plus money fares rather than upgrades or straight rewards.
Dec 16, 2015, 2:16 pm
#7
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Oxford
Programs: Skyteam Elite+, VS Red, HHonours Diamond, Accor Plat
Posts: 629
His problem is that he (she?) is comparing a Y economy fare to Z upper. Part of the problem is that the VS website is opaque about the fare class it's offering.
He should be comparing M to Z.
This is WRONG!!!
This is Right
He should be comparing M to Z.
This is WRONG!!!
This is Right
Last edited by stuart_f; Dec 16, 2015 at 2:30 pm Reason: Examples added
Dec 16, 2015, 2:40 pm
#9
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Oxford
Programs: Skyteam Elite+, VS Red, HHonours Diamond, Accor Plat
Posts: 629
£633 + 25k would get you Upper Class to Barbados and economy on the return leg. There will be additional taxes due on the outbound leg to cover the premium cabin, VS can tell you what that would be on the phone.
Alternatively £719 + 25K would get you Premium in both directions. This costs more because you need M class to be able to upgrade in both directions rather than only needing M outbound and O return as in the first case.
Alternatively £719 + 25K would get you Premium in both directions. This costs more because you need M class to be able to upgrade in both directions rather than only needing M outbound and O return as in the first case.
Dec 16, 2015, 3:22 pm
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 8
hello all. i called up the reservation line and that was what i was told. are you saying they are wrong? can i purchase a standard economy and upgrade? if so how?
i personally can't see all these fair codes you keep bandying about. i can only see options to buy regular economy and flexible. and as i said, being flexible over a period of two months (oct/nov 2016), the flexible economy is always approximately the same price as the upper class.
and yes, i have looked at all the options: money plus full upgrade and a mix of money and miles. either way, it makes almost no difference in how much i would spend to use the miles or just purchase an upper class outright.
and i'm not going to barbados...
i personally can't see all these fair codes you keep bandying about. i can only see options to buy regular economy and flexible. and as i said, being flexible over a period of two months (oct/nov 2016), the flexible economy is always approximately the same price as the upper class.
and yes, i have looked at all the options: money plus full upgrade and a mix of money and miles. either way, it makes almost no difference in how much i would spend to use the miles or just purchase an upper class outright.
and i'm not going to barbados...
Dec 16, 2015, 3:37 pm
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,196
Some Caribbean destinations are really popular and with only 14 seats on an LGW 747 rewards are hard to find.
Dec 16, 2015, 3:55 pm
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 8
sorry, i wasn't sure that it was relevant: jamaica.
i would prefer to upgrade on the return leg, although it isn't massively important. i am going for three weeks.
what website are you all looking at? the screengrabs don't look like the website i see.
i would prefer to upgrade on the return leg, although it isn't massively important. i am going for three weeks.
what website are you all looking at? the screengrabs don't look like the website i see.
Dec 16, 2015, 5:02 pm
#14
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Oxford
Programs: Skyteam Elite+, VS Red, HHonours Diamond, Accor Plat
Posts: 629
Thank you!! Finally enough info for a meaningful reply.
Part of the problem you have is that economy doesn't just come in (lowest) and (flexible) flavours, there's a load of different versions that fall in the middle and Virgin's website doesn't offer the fine control to be able to select the class you need. From most expensive to cheapest, the codes are:
The bar in the middle is very important, anything to the left of the line is upgradable using miles, anything to the right is not. What the website is doing is offering you 2 choices, cheapest or flexible. Cheapest means as far to the right of the line as possible, flexible means as far to the left of the line as possible. This isn't helpful at all but once you understand what the website is telling you, you can find the fare you actually want.
What we were complaining about in the early posts is that you were comparing Y (maximum flexibility) economy to minimum flexibility Upper Class (your £1900 vs £2000 comparison in the opening post).
The thing is when Flying Club told you you needed a flexible ticket to upgrade they were correct but not totally helpful. Your ticket needs to be SLIGHTLY flexible (to the left of the line) but it DOES NOT need to be totally flexible. There is significant saving booking M (minimum flexibility) over booking Y (total flexibility).
Now, we have already said VS website won't offer you anything except the 2 extremes so we will use the ITA-Matrix website to look up the fare you need. You can then book this over the phone with Flying Club.
Step 1: Visit https://matrix.itasoftware.com
Step 2: Setup your screen to look like this:
To get the extra boxes click on "Advanced routing codes"
The "/f bc=m" tells ITA Matrix to look for M class fares (the cheapest upgradable option) for the return leg.
The result should be something like £700 for departures on Wed.
Key point to note is that we are booking the outbound in O (cheapest economy and NOT upgradable) but the return in M (cheapest flexible and upgradable).
The total comes to £699.86
The final piece of the puzzle is that we also, in addition to all of the above, need reward availability in G (upper class reward fare) in order to actually be allowed to use the miles.
The easy way to find out if this exists if to head to:
http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb...ailedView=true
and set it to look like this:
Since the webpage offers you the return this means there is G availability on the return leg on 2 Nov (Pro note: You should really use Expert flyer to check fare buckets but this is beyond the scope of this quick and dirty guide). Armed with this info, ring up the flying club and ask them the following:
"I want to book economy in O class outbound to Jamaica and a return in M class and I want to upgrade the return to Upper using my miles on the following dates...."
Final step: lay towel on beach, obtain drink, relax.
-----
My only comment is that flying upper on the return is a bit of a waste. You miss the London Clubhouse, the daytime service and priority security etc at Gatwick. Flying upper home is still a great hard product but you get a really average lounge in BGI and not much service (after the meal the cabin crew will retire to allow people to sleep) and there's no arrival lounge at LGW but only you can decide what's valuable to you.
-----
Enjoy your holiday. 3 weeks, I'm jealous already!
Part of the problem you have is that economy doesn't just come in (lowest) and (flexible) flavours, there's a load of different versions that fall in the middle and Virgin's website doesn't offer the fine control to be able to select the class you need. From most expensive to cheapest, the codes are:
Y B R L U M | E Q V X N O
What we were complaining about in the early posts is that you were comparing Y (maximum flexibility) economy to minimum flexibility Upper Class (your £1900 vs £2000 comparison in the opening post).
The thing is when Flying Club told you you needed a flexible ticket to upgrade they were correct but not totally helpful. Your ticket needs to be SLIGHTLY flexible (to the left of the line) but it DOES NOT need to be totally flexible. There is significant saving booking M (minimum flexibility) over booking Y (total flexibility).
Now, we have already said VS website won't offer you anything except the 2 extremes so we will use the ITA-Matrix website to look up the fare you need. You can then book this over the phone with Flying Club.
Step 1: Visit https://matrix.itasoftware.com
Step 2: Setup your screen to look like this:
To get the extra boxes click on "Advanced routing codes"
The "/f bc=m" tells ITA Matrix to look for M class fares (the cheapest upgradable option) for the return leg.
The result should be something like £700 for departures on Wed.
Key point to note is that we are booking the outbound in O (cheapest economy and NOT upgradable) but the return in M (cheapest flexible and upgradable).
The total comes to £699.86
The final piece of the puzzle is that we also, in addition to all of the above, need reward availability in G (upper class reward fare) in order to actually be allowed to use the miles.
The easy way to find out if this exists if to head to:
http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb...ailedView=true
and set it to look like this:
Since the webpage offers you the return this means there is G availability on the return leg on 2 Nov (Pro note: You should really use Expert flyer to check fare buckets but this is beyond the scope of this quick and dirty guide). Armed with this info, ring up the flying club and ask them the following:
"I want to book economy in O class outbound to Jamaica and a return in M class and I want to upgrade the return to Upper using my miles on the following dates...."
Final step: lay towel on beach, obtain drink, relax.
-----
My only comment is that flying upper on the return is a bit of a waste. You miss the London Clubhouse, the daytime service and priority security etc at Gatwick. Flying upper home is still a great hard product but you get a really average lounge in BGI and not much service (after the meal the cabin crew will retire to allow people to sleep) and there's no arrival lounge at LGW but only you can decide what's valuable to you.
-----
Enjoy your holiday. 3 weeks, I'm jealous already!
Last edited by stuart_f; Dec 16, 2015 at 5:25 pm Reason: I can't spell.