Merry Flyer

Matt: My dear Matt, you have missed the point, this is nothing to do with competition, this is the establishment v the reformer.

This discussion is a reflection of the entire English culture under Blair's government.

At stake here is everything I hold dear.


Kat: I will let you know when BA are next doing a companion free offer!


Anyway, I must go now (but I will be back to savage Virgin by close of play), I have to prepare myself for an event steeped in glory and splender.

For today my friends Her Brittanic Majesty Queen Elizabeth II by the Grace of God, Queen of this Realm and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith', opens Parliament.

Today is the day HM goes to the Palace of Westminster, despatches Black-Rod to demand the attendance of her Ministers and Members of Parliament in the House of Lords and reads her speech.

The speech tells those assembled what legislation HM wants her government to enact in the coming 12 months.

Then there will be alot of walking backwards, bowing, national anthem etc.

AAAhhhhh.... A day in front of the TV if ever there was one.

-Check out the BBC web site for your own slice of this most majestic of events
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/special_report/1998/11/98/queen_speech/newsid_179000/179917.stm

or if you prefer (http://news.bbc.co.uk)

Live coverage is of course available from 10.30GMT.

God save the Lords!
MF

PS: Catman, there is no need to sanction me for the post, I KNOW I have broken every Omni-rule you seek to enforce :-)

roberto

Ive still likes virgins but theys vary hard to find in Englands to no?

MF mine tv cantnot find the bbc channel you speaks about. Besids us americins heared newsi about no mores nickkers so why woulds we watch it enyway?

kokonutz

Merry, I'm afraid that by making the debate about establishment vs. reformers you are only hurting your own cause. Of course by establishment, I'm sure you are referring to the glorious impirial days before the turn of the century, but in my mind, the "establishment" in Britain refers to the pre-Thatcher years of nationalized companies, a dole out of control and labor strife, ie, gross inefficiencies that nearly wrecked over 700 years of hard work. To the extent that BA was, at one time, a symbol of such socialist tendencies, calling Branson a reformer is like calling Blair Clinton: You may think it an insult, but the object of your derision would consider it a compliment. Again, though, an interesting debate!

BTW, I have no axe to grind here, when I fly to Europe (always for pleasure) it is ALWAYS on UA because of my status and because of the number of flights from IAD. And, given the choice in any class between BA and Virgin today, I'd probably try BA before Virgin...

Merry Flyer

Dear, Dear, Dear Matt.

By establishments we means todays organisations which have a rich and colourful history. Which are entrenched in the British way of life.

BA is the Establishment because it is our State Airline our National Airline, Virgin is not the establishment because it is a young upstart.

There is nothing currently nor has there ever been anything socialist about BA. It was one of the first European Airlines to be privatised. It was the first major European airlines to be profitable. It is involved in global aquisitions and partnerships.

BA is the most efficient major airline in the world (FAA stats!). Less employees per mile. More revenue per seat. More revenue per mile. Greater share-holder return.

As I am British I cherish such an example to the rest of the world. I am proud of my state airline.

When Pan-Am, TWA, UA and CO were all struggeling or dissapearing not so long ago BA was showing the way forward.

Virgin does not make me proud. It is British and it is succesful, but it is not Establishment.

I could go on but my eyes are welling up. I am so close to tears, I just have this thought in my mind of Her Majesty arriving for a state visit, not on a BA Concorde but on a Virgin Boeing-747 (my appologies to Air New Zealand, I understand you did a find job by giving HM the entire upper-deck and First Class section, fitting dining and bedrooms).
MF

baobab

Matt - the Establishment, to most British people who are too young to remember the Empire, generally means pre-World War II or earlier, stretching back all the way to legendary kings & queens. It does *not* mean Old Labour!!

kokonutz

Madam, how like you like [merry's reply]?

The lady protests too much, methinks.

KatW

Hullo All --

Interesting to follow this discussion. Some responses:

Merry Flyer -- Yo, buddy, I'll be first in line for a BA biz companion deal! So, don't forget to let me know.

baobab -- You make good points yet I probably wasn't clear in my initial post. I can't afford to fly first or business across the pond on BA (or UAL or AA or other major airlines). But, I can afford to fly in (very) modest comfort on Virgin's premium economy fare and/or (preferably) upper class companion tix offers.

Here's how it works: We go to U.K./Europe about every 18 to 24 months (so it's difficult to accumulate ff miles which sometimes are difficult to deploy for upgrades in the desired timeframe -- in other words using ff miles for upgrades can be iffy). I fly with my beloved spouse from west-coast USA which makes it a ten-hour flight over and an 11-hour return. I am too old (and cranky) to fly steerage that long. ( I don't recall the exact dollar amounts for any of the following prices but certainly they are in the ballpark.)

Last summer, Virgin offered premium economy fares SFO/LHR/SFO for $3100 (which was $6200 for two). BA doesn't offer a comparable class; its business class weighs in at about $7000 EACH for the same round trip; BA first is about $10,500 round-trip. So, to fly BA biz class would cost us $14,400 (or $21,000! in first) . . . which is a chunk of change. It's true BA biz class far exceeds the comfort and bennies of Virgin's premium economy but that's academic in my case since I can't afford $14,400. I'm just pleased as punch to be able to fork over $6,200 for the two of us to fly in modest comfort. However, as it turned out, Virgin was offering a companion deal with AmEx which enabled me to buy two upper class tickets for the price of one -- so, Jim and I flew round-trip SFO/LHR/SFO for $7,200 -- only $1K more than the cost of premium economy and WAY more comfy! And, yes, we did get our very own jammies! We still have 'em although I confess Jim looks better in Virgin duds than do I (no pun intended).

To conclude -- I'd happily fly BA if I could afford to do so in other than steerage. But, I can't so I happily fly Virgin. And, I can't wait to return to the U.K. -- one of our fave places in the whole world is Gravetye Manor in Sussex . . . and we adore London.

Cheers,
Kathryn

arturo

chers too, i drenks to the virguns and to mi
ameego roberto

Merry Flyer

Welcome KatW:

We will come onto the much more serious matters in a moment, but first of all you are right about Gravetye it is a great place to chill out.

Do you recall Thierry Morigeon (Sommelier) from your stays? He is an old drinking pal of mine and a great guy.

Next time you are there mention me to him and tell him to take you and hubby for a drink at the Chafford Arms in Fordcombe, it's Thierry's local pub and is really pleaseant, He will love to take people there (especially American's and show off).
Merry Flyer

PS: Handy for overnight stays at Gatwick as well!

Merry Flyer

KatW: I have given some thought to your Virgin dilema (ie. companion fare and BA not having anything comparable to Premium Economy).

So serious do I think this is as a potential threat to my friends at BA that I have 'phoned them and sought a resolution to the problem.

Of course BA rose to the occassion and offered the following:

Minimum two people travelling. Minimum stay 2 nights must include a Saturday night. Travel not permitted between 15th December & 15th January:

Outward portion: AA First Class SFO-JKF, then BA Concorde JFK-LHR.

Return Portion: LHR-SFO in ClubWorld.

And the cost: US$ 4243 + taxes!!

The point of this is that if give BA a try, explain the situation and see what they will offer, you may very well be suprised.

Failing that, wind me up enough and I will harass BA for you.
MF

Merry Flyer

Matt, what does:

"Madam, how like you like [merry's reply]?"

mean??
MF

kokonutz

It means that my fat fingers and thick brain can't even quote your bard without throwing "like"s around like an 80s valley girl...

BTW, what's the deal with the multiple postings, merry? You trying to catch the cat???

Merry Flyer

Just in case there was any confusion the $4243 (above) is each person.

Matt, no I'm not chasing the Cat's tail. Multiple posts, because I know you all give up after my first couple of paragraphs (some of you don't even get that far)!

I'm going Omni again. Did you know that Jamie Lee-Curtis was at the Queen's Speach today? She is also Lady Haden-Guess of Sayling. She's a good-girl marrying a nice English Gentleman!
MF

arturo

i see her on my bbc chanel. chanel no. 5 on my chanel thang

Catman

As I said in a past posting, I have flown
BA Club World and found it still to be the best flight I have ever taken. From the smiling and attractive check in British woman (Who looked like Diana) to the staff to the funny captain coming home from Europe (who gave directions in "American" and "English.." I wish I had my diary to write them down!) to the comfortable chairs and food and service... I have taken BA through Europe and
TransAtlantic. I think it's among the best
airlines in teh world (I don't believe there's a BEST anything.)

I will probably take BA when I get to london
to have a drink at the pub with Merry Flyer
(Who's doing ok as a co-cat-cop, but watch
the slippage into ROberto-ish spellings!)

That is unless I change jobs, know I won't travel much and need to requalify for UA
PREMEX. Then I'll have to go UA>

But you have made a good case for Virgin JayJ
and KatW. I HAVE NOT FLOWN VIRGIN YET. I do
have friends who have from EWR and said they
are satisifed with the Business class and World Traveler Class. (Then again they are not FF-ers and not as picky as me.)

Tell me if this is illegal: Can I buy a one way on Virgin and One way back on B-A? Then
compare the airlines. Maybe I'll try Virgin
just so I have more to talk about.

OMNI Posting: I think I would rather see a debate between Merry FLyer/Baobab/B-A supporters versus JayJ/KatW/Virgin flyers on
T-V than a certain Starry prosecutor and those hearings. (Or most T-V shows, period.)

Please keep the debate civilized guys. then
If you all can go to Hawaii you can all shake
hands and be friends.

Thank you for not diving into insults.
CATMAN