LAX T3 Plans for VX laid out at crankyflier.com

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Old Sep 9, 08, 5:42 pm
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LAX T3 Plans for VX laid out at crankyflier.com

http://crankyflier.com/2008/09/09/vi...rminal-shifts/


Alaska and Horizon will continue to operate out of the six gates on the west side of Terminal 3 (marked in blue on the map at left), but Virgin America and V Australia will now take three (maybe four if V Australia has its own) of the six gates on the east side (marked in red on the map at left).

Virgin America says that they are “planning to update the space and help re-establish views of the runway and cityscape.” That’s what will happen before they move in. They are also “working with LAWA on the Phase 2 renovation, which will focus on creating a more guest-facing experience using innovative and sustainable design principles (with a bit of a retro twist back to the terminal’s original 1961 design).
God, if they can improve T3 from the dump it is now (PLZ PUT IN A VX/VS LOUNGE ASAP KTHXBYE), I'll be happy. The food options there suck as well (Burger King and a craptastic version of California Pizza Kitchen/sports bar).
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Old Sep 10, 08, 12:29 am
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Good news for VX and potentially bad news for AS. What they neglect to mention is that AS uses gates 35, 36 and 37a or b on the east side of terminal 3 on a daily basis. They do not only use gates 30-34. VX's move to T3 is going to require some significant adjustments to the AS schedule, particularly spreading flights out more at peak hours. However, I think it will take a while for VX to ramp up its full schedule at LAX, so hopefully the port will continue to designate the T3 gates as common use in the mean time.
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Old Sep 10, 08, 1:19 am
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Of course, that means VX has to actually MAKE it a couple years down the road, to the point where they'd use 6 gates on a regular basis.
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Old Sep 10, 08, 1:53 am
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To me, LAX is as much of a hub as SFO right now. The only destinations from SFO that aren't destinations from LAX are the ones that are less than an hour (LAS, SAN). The benefits of VX over, say, US are lost on that short a flight.

I would love to see VX expand even more out of LAX. AA has dropped all of their LAX-FLL flights. Seems like an opportunity to me! :-) :-)

Also, with the horrible fog the've been having at SFO, combined with a new terminal with dedicated gates at LAX...
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Old Sep 10, 08, 2:13 am
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Isn't VX going for more a point-to-point, Southwest model eventually, rather than hub-spoke? I would think that based on that, they'd expand SFO, LAX AND JFK, as well as others (dunno about IAD).

(I'm sure hoping so- if VX has SEA-LAS as a direct flight in the future, I can tell you right now my days flying AS on that route, or very much at all, are VERY limited.)

Also: LAX-FLL instead of LAX-MIA? I suppose...
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Old Sep 10, 08, 2:19 am
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
Isn't VX going for more a point-to-point, Southwest model eventually, rather than hub-spoke?

(I'm sure hoping so- if VX has SEA-LAS as a direct flight in the future, I can tell you right now my days flying AS on that route, or very much at all, are VERY limited.)

Also: LAX-FLL instead of LAX-MIA? I suppose...
FLL/MIA - doesn't matter to me. I live equidistant :-) But FLL is more civilized, so AA's dumping of that route will have some people hoping for an alternative.

I have no insight as to whether they will be hub-spoke or not, but right now their route map sure looks like a couple of big wheels (other than JFK-LAS).

Edit: I guess DL is picking up LAX-FLL though, 12/19/08...
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Old Sep 10, 08, 11:14 am
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IMO - SFO is a much nicer airport than LAX. I avoid LAX where possible. It's called LAX[ative] for a reason...

Unfortunately, it looks like I may be flying through there more often when VA starts flying BNE-LAX. On the positive side, I'll have an excuse to fly VX more often on the LAX-SFO route.
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Old Sep 10, 08, 11:49 am
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Originally Posted by nermaljcat View Post
imo - sfo is a much nicer airport than lax. I avoid lax where possible. It's called lax[ative] for a reason...

Unfortunately, it looks like i may be flying through there more often when va starts flying bne-lax. On the positive side, i'll have an excuse to fly vx more often on the lax-sfo route.
bne?
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Old Sep 10, 08, 1:40 pm
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Brisbane (V Australia will be flying LAX-BNE eventually).

I also concur about SFO > LAX (at least the International Terminal side), though if VX does a nice job on T3 and there's a good Virgin Clubhouse, that will help a lot. (Hopefully you won't have to go landside outside the TSA secured perimeter to reach it- that is the ONE problem in SFO).

Also, Cranky updated his story to give an approximate date for the move to LAX T3:

I’ve now been told they’ll switch at the end of October. I’ll keep you posted.

Last edited by eponymous_coward; Sep 10, 08 at 1:48 pm
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Old Sep 10, 08, 2:14 pm
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But if T3 doesn't have immigration, how can V Australia fly there and not VS

Am I missing something?
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Old Sep 10, 08, 3:03 pm
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Well, you might notice that Alaska uses T3 as well. They also have flights that require a trip through customs and immigration (anything inbound to LAX from MX- I think AS gets preclearance on the pax on YVR-LAX; I've never flown that route, though, so I'm not sure).

What Alaska does is either uses a remote stand, or just takes people off the flight at the gate without connecting the jetway, and busses people over to TBIT. I would assume VS would do something similar, or actually use a TBIT gate and move the plane over to T3 going outbound back.

Also, Virgin Atlantic (VS) isn't moving to T3 (they are in Terminal 2, which has a US Customs facility). It's Virgin Australia (VA) that has to figure out where to go...

Last edited by eponymous_coward; Sep 10, 08 at 3:23 pm
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Old Sep 10, 08, 3:43 pm
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Right. BNE is Brisbane, Australia where I grew up and my immediate family live (and my residence is located). I fly US-AU a few times a year and look forward to VA launching BNE-LAX in March, 2009. It's sad to say the 12-17 hr (BNE-LAX or BNE-SYD-SFO) transpacs are starting to feel a little too routine . Hopefully VA will be more like VX and less like DJ (Virgin Blue).

It sounds like moving the two airlines into the same terminal is a good step towards codesharing?

BTW - I've never had or seen pre-clearance in AU (BNE nor SYD), only in Canada. But maybe they are planning on adding it?
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Old Sep 10, 08, 4:34 pm
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I don't think the Aussies and the US are talking about preclearance- it's just a Canada/Bemuda/Caribbean thing right now.

I also would figure that V Australia and Virgin America would codeshare at some point while operating out of T3: VX would offer VA pax one stop to or from NYC, IAD, SFO, SEA, SAN, possibly ORD and MIA/FLL once VA service hits LAX.
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Old Sep 10, 08, 5:35 pm
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Originally Posted by eponymous_coward View Post
Also, Virgin Atlantic (VS) isn't moving to T3 (they are in Terminal 2, which has a US Customs facility). It's Virgin Australia (VA) that has to figure out where to go...
I know - I was wondering why VA could go there if, as someone said, it didn't have customs/immigration facilities. If it does, it explains it. Be sensible of VS to make the move though if possible - one big Virgin lounge
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Old Sep 10, 08, 6:16 pm
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Clearly they will have customs/immigration facilities at the new T3. The board recommendation order:

BOARD ORDER NO. AO- - First Amendment to Airline Terminal Space
Lease & License Agreement: With VIRGIN AMERICA to INCLUDE
RELOCATION FROM TERMINAL 6 TO TERMINAL 3 at LOS ANGELES
INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT that will generate approximately $2,852,000 in annual
revenue and provide Virgin America with one-time credits offsetting rents arising
from fee adjustments in Terminal 6, improvements in Terminal 6 to be transferred
to Los Angeles World Airports, and from upcoming improvements in Terminal 3; the
relocation of Terminal 3 and the related improvements are directly related to
accommodating additional domestic air service planned by Virgin America and for
new international air service by V-Australia, neither of which could be
accommodated in Terminal 6
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: The report requests approval by the Board of Airport
Commissioners of a Lease Amendment with Virgin America that will accomplish the
following:
Relocate Virgin America from Terminal 6 (T-6) to Terminal 3 (T-3) at Los Angeles
International Airport ("LAX);
Relocate five (5) airlines with smaller operations from T-3 to T-6 through
coordination by Virgin America;
Establish a replacement rent structure for Virgin America more consistent with
the fees charged to other airlines pursuant to United Statgs Department of
Transportation orders and litigation settlement agreements with other airlines at
LAX;
Retroactively adjust Virgin America's T-6 fees from their service commencemeht
date of August 1,2007;
Define the framework for Virgin America to improve the lobbylticket counter area
at T-3;
Create a preferential gate utilization standard for Virgin America at T-3;
Provide significant improvements to the lobby area of T-3, including the removal
of the EDS machines from the public area west side of the T-3 lobby; and
Facilitate the commencement of air service by V-Australia by providing ticket
counters and aircraft parkinglgate positions that can accommodate 777-300ER
aircraft through Virgin America.
The Virgin branded companies are concerned about the level of customer
convenience and efficient management of their operations given the distance
between locations they currently occupy at LAX: Virgin Atlantic currently operates
at Terminal 2, Virgin America operates at T-6, and V-Australia wil: iaunch service at
T-3.
Additionally, Virgin America has concerns about the limited availability of gates of
which they fear will constrain plans to add more flights at LAX. Therefore, Virgin
America requested to co-locate the Virgin brand on the north side terminals by
moving from T-6 to T-3 and making the necessary improvements to the lobby area
to accommodate both V-Australia and Virgin America, and provide improved
experience to the traveling public who use this terminal. To accommodate Virgin
America's proposed move, five (5) T-3 carriers (AirTran, Frontier, Midwest, Spirit
Airlines, and Sun Country) will need to be relocated to T-6.
RECOMMENDATION: Adoption of the Report requesting that the Board of Airport
Commissioners approve the First Amendment to Airline Terminal Space Lease and
License Agreement No. LAA-8403 with Virgin America to include relocation from
Terminal 6 to Terminal 3 that will generate approximately $2,852,000 in the first
year of direct annual rental revenue to Los Angeles World Airports, with similar
amounts generated in subsequent years under the lease, and create a Virgin

America Consolidated Credit Account of $924,500 and a Terminal Improvement
Credit of $1,300,000; and authorize the Executive Director to execute the First
Amendment to Airline Terminal Space Lease and License Agreement No. LAA-
8403 with Virgin America, upon approval as to form by the City Attorney. (Debbie
Bowers, 31 0-646-71 42)
from http://www.lacity.org/lawa/bac_agend...3_07282008.pdf
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