VX for sale?
Apr 1, 2016, 4:57 pm
#76
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: VX Elevate, B6 TrueBlue, DL SkyMiles
Posts: 72
As Marvin the Martian said, "This makes me SO angry!"
R.I.P. VX.
The best airline the U.S. has ever had.
Soon to become part of JetBland (bland when compared to VX and HA).
You know what else is sick? Terminal 2 at SFO would become JetBland's terminal.
It's all SO depressing.
R.I.P. VX.
The best airline the U.S. has ever had.
Soon to become part of JetBland (bland when compared to VX and HA).
You know what else is sick? Terminal 2 at SFO would become JetBland's terminal.
It's all SO depressing.
Last edited by Prospero; Apr 2, 2016 at 5:04 pm Reason: Combine consecutive posts
Apr 1, 2016, 8:49 pm
#77
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SJC
Programs: DL PM MM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 3,276
Well, and I'm going to argue that VX actually has a brand that stands on its own. I could hash out differences between DL, UA, and AA (and some of their now-merged predecessors) but dangit, it would take some effort and even then I don't know what would stand out between them. Honestly, in the scope of things, I can speak to five airlines which have brand/product propositions that stand out in ways I can articulate: VX, WN, NK, and to a lesser extent AS and HA. The first three are glaringly obvious (VX's high-quality operation; WN's single-cabin product; NK's deep-discount, screw-you-with-fees model [I said stand out, not necessarily in a good way]; and HA/AS's somewhat-unique products [HA has a somewhat-unique product, partly because they're an almost 100% long-haul airline]).
NK and WN both stand out to me, though F9 is copying the NK model. WN for it's all Y open seating and NK for it's pack 'em in and charge them fees up the wazoo model.
If it is B6 that buys VX, there will be a lot more markets that will be accessible with the combined airline.
I never found HA all that great on my two flights. They only served a small cup of juice and there was no other beverage choice. It was nothing special at all.
Apr 1, 2016, 8:53 pm
#78
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SFO/SJC/OAK
Posts: 522
Apr 1, 2016, 9:19 pm
#79
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: VX Elevate, B6 TrueBlue, DL SkyMiles
Posts: 72
DL, UA, and AA (with their regional partners) have a reach that no one else has. Want to fly to Montana, good luck taking VX, B6, or WN. Want to go to upstate New York, good luck taking WX. At least B6 and WN will get you there.
NK and WN both stand out to me, though F9 is copying the NK model. WN for it's all Y open seating and NK for it's pack 'em in and charge them fees up the wazoo model.
If it is B6 that buys VX, there will be a lot more markets that will be accessible with the combined airline.
I never found HA all that great on my two flights. They only served a small cup of juice and there was no other beverage choice. It was nothing special at all.
NK and WN both stand out to me, though F9 is copying the NK model. WN for it's all Y open seating and NK for it's pack 'em in and charge them fees up the wazoo model.
If it is B6 that buys VX, there will be a lot more markets that will be accessible with the combined airline.
I never found HA all that great on my two flights. They only served a small cup of juice and there was no other beverage choice. It was nothing special at all.
The only merger with another U.S. airline, that would be tolerable, would be HA/VX, in the style of AF-KLM, or IAG (BA, Iberia, AerLingus). Both airlines have high quality products, have excellent reputations, and both are Airbus operators (except for the 717's in HA's fleet, which eventually need to be retired and could be replaced with A319's or A318's). There is also Ohana by HA, but that would't be an issue. This would also give VX international reach to Asia and the South Pacific via HA, and give HA domestic reach beyond the west and the non-stop HNL-JFK service. The merged parent company could be Pacific Airlines Group or just Virgin-Hawaiian, for example.
Last edited by Prospero; Apr 2, 2016 at 4:56 pm Reason: Combine four consecutive posts
Apr 1, 2016, 11:02 pm
#80
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SJC
Programs: DL PM MM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 3,276
How many people need to go to Montana? Not many. If you do need to go there, the lousy U.S. carriers can get you there. Same with upstate New York. So what? Besides, I live in NYC, and if I DID have reason to go up there (which is like, NEVER) why would I fly in a fricken plane when I could take the train? Even more people take a coach, or, if they have a car, they drive.
I wonder what B6 will do with LGB if they pick up VX's operations in LAX?
Apr 2, 2016, 5:13 am
#81
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: VX Elevate, B6 TrueBlue, DL SkyMiles
Posts: 72
I have more use for Montana, upstate NY, and lots of other small cities than NYC. To each their own. I would think a B6-VX hookup would create a stronger, more profitable airline. The B6 model seems to be more profitable than VX.
I wonder what B6 will do with LGB if they pick up VX's operations in LAX?
I wonder what B6 will do with LGB if they pick up VX's operations in LAX?
Last edited by Moderator2; Apr 2, 2016 at 9:40 pm Reason: FT Rule #16: "Using symbols, spaces or other methods to mask vulgarities is not allowed."
Apr 2, 2016, 7:17 am
#82
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
(1) Not all companies that are "public listings" are really controlled by the public shareholders. Facebook, Google, and Ford are, IIRC, pretty good examples of this (as of last year there were a handful of shareholders that owned about 60% of FB; due to a complex stock structure a large majority of the voting power of Google stock is held by the founders; and the Ford family foundation has a similar situation with Ford). Bear in mind that not all ownership stake is always floated (or always floated in one go).
(2) IIRC the "initial investors" (except for Virgin Group) still have a majority of the stock.
(2b) Note that there's little or no talk of VX having to put this to a vote. What that tells me is that the initial investment groups, all told, still have a large majority of the stock...IIRC they only floated 25% or so, and Virgin Group only owns about 20-25% due to those stupid-... regulations.
So...if you want to blame someone, don't blame JetBlue. Blame arcane ownership rules designed to protect the legacy carriers against international competition which properly date back to before deregulation and to an environment where countries having protected, often government-owned and government-supported, "flag carriers" was a much bigger thing and I suspect there was a fear that international carriers might simply undercut domestic ones on prices due to subsidies (rather than gain market share due to domestic ones just sucking).
Of course, as a counter-point, Virgin America also emerged from that mess: If not for such rules, I strongly suspect that several major foreign carriers would've started slamming into the larger US routes and potentially building limited networks in the US which would simply crush the remaining legacies on various fronts (quality, etc...would anyone care to guess what would happen if SQ or the ME3 barged in on LAX/SFO-NYC/WAS?) and the "everyone else sucks" situation which left VX a niche to fill wouldn't have existed to start with.
(2) IIRC the "initial investors" (except for Virgin Group) still have a majority of the stock.
(2b) Note that there's little or no talk of VX having to put this to a vote. What that tells me is that the initial investment groups, all told, still have a large majority of the stock...IIRC they only floated 25% or so, and Virgin Group only owns about 20-25% due to those stupid-... regulations.
So...if you want to blame someone, don't blame JetBlue. Blame arcane ownership rules designed to protect the legacy carriers against international competition which properly date back to before deregulation and to an environment where countries having protected, often government-owned and government-supported, "flag carriers" was a much bigger thing and I suspect there was a fear that international carriers might simply undercut domestic ones on prices due to subsidies (rather than gain market share due to domestic ones just sucking).
Of course, as a counter-point, Virgin America also emerged from that mess: If not for such rules, I strongly suspect that several major foreign carriers would've started slamming into the larger US routes and potentially building limited networks in the US which would simply crush the remaining legacies on various fronts (quality, etc...would anyone care to guess what would happen if SQ or the ME3 barged in on LAX/SFO-NYC/WAS?) and the "everyone else sucks" situation which left VX a niche to fill wouldn't have existed to start with.
Apr 2, 2016, 1:30 pm
#85
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K, AS MVP, Bonvoy Plat, IHG Plat, HH Gold, Hyatt Disc
Posts: 217
Apr 2, 2016, 1:41 pm
#86
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: B6 Mosaic, Bonvoy LT Titanium (x SPG LT), IHG Spire, UA Silver
Posts: 5,848
Totally agree. VX being taken over by a quasi legacy carrier would be terrible. The only thing gained by AS is a load of debt and by the current VX owners a big windfall at the top of the business cycle.
Apr 2, 2016, 1:49 pm
#87
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: NYC/LA
Programs: DL Plat, AA Plat Pro, Marriott Titanium, IHG Diamond Amb
Posts: 7,486
I'm actually realized surprised by this outcome. VX and B6 at least have a more comparable coach product than AS, and combined would have good coverage on both coasts. AS + VX just makes a stronger West Coast player. Though perhaps that what AS wants.
It'll be interesting to see what happens to the onboard product. AS style slimline seats with just Wi-Fi and power ports? (And streaming entertainment to your own device via Wi-Fi... at a charge?)
It'll be interesting to see what happens to the onboard product. AS style slimline seats with just Wi-Fi and power ports? (And streaming entertainment to your own device via Wi-Fi... at a charge?)
Apr 2, 2016, 2:15 pm
#88
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: NYC
Programs: VX Elevate, B6 TrueBlue, DL SkyMiles
Posts: 72
Apr 2, 2016, 2:46 pm
#89
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SJC
Programs: DL PM MM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 3,276
I've flown AS a few times, and I don't think they are crap. While they don't have a fancy screen at every seat, they are a pretty nice outfit.
Last edited by Prospero; Apr 2, 2016 at 4:58 pm Reason: Combine consecutive posts
Apr 2, 2016, 4:21 pm
#90
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SF
Programs: UA, VX, QF, EY, VA
Posts: 756
You can purchase better seats (MCS, MC up front) on VX. Alaska has the dumbest E+ rules: 'pay full fare economy or have status' thing.
None of these things are good.
E+ on UA == VX MCS > VX E >> UA E > Alaska E.
Last edited by Prospero; Apr 2, 2016 at 4:58 pm Reason: Combine consecutive posts