Elevate MCS upgrades
 

I'm a new Silver and flew this last week for the first time as Silver from PDX to FLL. On the outbound, I was upgraded to MCS 12 hours before the flight as expected. On the return, I wasn't upgraded on any of the three flights I took that day. At the airport for my first flight at FLL, the agent said she'd put me on the upgrade list. That was nice but I would have thought I'd have been put on the list automatically. I didn't get it because MCS was full. At the LAX service counter, they put me on the upgrade list again - apparently I wasn't already on the list. The agent told me there were no upgrades - the flight was completely full. On board during the flight, I saw that three MCS seats were empty and the plane wasn't close to full. In SFO, I asked the gate agent if I was on the upgrade list. She told me MCS row 10 was empty and I could have whatever I want. I got the impression that if I didn't ask for the upgrade, I wouldn't get it. I don't understand why the Elevate upgrade system is set up this way. Why leave MCS seats empty when you've got Gold or Silvers on board? And why do you have to keep going to the gate agents to ask? That's not convenient or pleasant if there's a line. If this is status at Virgin, it doesn't seem worth it.

you have to 'opt-in' for MCS upgrades when you make your booking on VX.com, otherwise you can always call them up to add the opt-in to an existing booking. Not everyone wants auto MCS upgrades as you might end up in a middle seat (typically the last seats to fill)

What the poster above me said is very important: its important to make sure you opt-in on each reservation you make. If booked on vx.com, you can do this by checking the box on the payment page. If you made the reservation via an outside agency (corporate travel office, for instance), you have to call the Silver or Gold desk and ask that they flag your reservation for comp upgrades. It's a slight inconvenience, by you can do it at any time prior to departure and can take care of several itineraries during one call.


If, for whatever reason, the upgrade doesn't occur at t-12 or t-24, you can call the silver/gold desk and ask them to do it. Assuming there is availability, they can usually process it instantly. The airport staff, by contrast, don't seem so good about being able to process instantly and instead use this "upgrade list" that doesn't aways seem to work. The point is that it's often easier to accomplish by telephone.

If the upgrade doesn't occur at the window because there's bk availability, but availability subsequently opens up (due to a cancelation or something) your best bet is to call the desk ASAP and try to get the seat.

For golds, how far in advance are these usually clearing? What's the success rate? Obviously it's route specific, but I'm just generally curious.

They clear at T-24.

Extremely high success rate on most routes, probably exempting to/from BOS.

LAX-SFO can be a bit tough depending on what fight you're on, but even then, it's pretty favorable. Way better than legacies, imo.

Success rates as VX Silver:

VX Silver Upgrades 2014
SFO-JFK: 0/1
DAL-SFO: 0/1
SFO-PDX: 1/1
SFO-FLL: 1/1 ($170 option for 1st, purchased)
FLL-SFO: 1/1
SFO-SAN: 0/1


VX Silver Upgrades 2015
LAX-SFO: 1/1 ($50 option for 1st)
SFO-LAS: 1/1 ($50 option for 1st, purchased)

Thanks for the detailed responses! I have flown VX on and off for the past few years. Did my status match, and I'll make sure to get it extended through the end of 2016. Excited to see what the elite VX experience is like.

Welcome to VX! Even if you don't clear upgrades, the planes are generally more empty so it's a nicer environment in general unlike UA (every plane seems to be oversold).

I wouldn't get your hopes up unless you are Gold. In my experience Silver is not worth much; the main benefits are the ability to select exit row seats without paying a fee (normally up to $30), and an extra 6 hours ahead to buy F upgrades (at 12 hours instead of 6). Be careful with the "free" MCS upgrades, because if you already have an exit row seat window or aisle, you have a decent chance of ending up with a worse seat (middle) after the upgrade.

The status programs on most of the legacy airlines give you a better shot at upgrades than VX does, if you're not at the lowest level.

How full the plane is probably depends on your route. A lot of the flights I take are full.

The rest of it is true, but, assuming that you don't fly F or MCS, another nice benefit of Silver is the earlier boarding. If you travel with a carry-on and don't want to gate-check it, this is a nice bonus (I never check bags and I hate having to wait for them after the flight -- I want to walk out of the airport as soon as I'm off the plane). I fly SFO-LAS a lot and those flights are usually full (or close to it) and people in the last couple of boarding groups are constantly having to gate-check their bags.

They often offer earlier boarding to get volunteers to gate-check before boarding starts. I always thought that this was completely useless, since, once you don't have any carry-ons, earlier boarding isn't really worth anything. They should offer a free drink or something. I'm sure that a lot of people would check their bags in exchange for a beer.

Wait, what? I'm UA Gold – which isn't great but certainly isn't the lowest level – and I get upgraded about 1% of miles flown. My friend who's Platinum doesn't do any better (except when he uses his two CPU certificates...and even then he often gets denied). How could it be worse than that?

A few ways:

1) There is no way to upgrade into first class without paying the same fee that someone without status pays. You do get a first shot at buying the upgrade, but in my experience that has only been useful at most 10-20% of the time (for the remainder, F is generally sold out in the last 12 hours before the flight).

2) The Main Cabin Select upgrades are just exit row seats with free food, which you can get at booking on the legacy airlines if you have status (minus the food). With VX you can only get them at the upgrade window, meaning 12 hours ahead for Silver and 24 hours for Gold. Making this worse, you really don't want to rely on the automated upgrade process if you don't want a middle seat, because that's mostly what's left at the upgrade windows and they give you no way to specify that you want the upgrade only if there's a window or aisle available. So much of the time the upgrade is actually something of a downgrade if you aren't careful. There is one row of exit seats available at booking for free, but this is at best at parity with the legacy airlines, not an advantage.

3) You get lounge access as UA Gold when flying internationally and on partner airlines. This is a significant benefit. VX only has one lounge (at LAX) and you still need to pay $20 to get in, even as Elevate Gold. On VX partners there are no benefits (only redeeming awards and earning points).

The other benefits (priority boarding and security, and mileage bonuses) are identical to the legacy airline programs.

I would argue that if you're getting Economy Plus at booking most of the time, and F upgrades occasionally, you're doing much better with United than you'd do with Virgin status. I like the airline but the status program is very weak.

I mean, I guess. MCS, to me, compares more with First on most other airlines. I mean you get more legroom, free food, free drinks and free movies/tv.

Most of the time I get row 3 so I am one of the first off the plane which I also think is a great perk.

Maybe I am also just an alcoholic but the free unlimited drinks makes a 6hr JFK-SFO flight much more tolerable.

Maybe I am also crazy or weird but I think a middle seat MCS > aisle MC. The room in front of you (especially row 3) is almost essential I want to try to get some real laptop work in. The window and middle seats can also usually squeeze by with just closing the tray table rather than having the entire row stand up when someone needs the bathroom.

This :-:
Anyone who says "MCS is basically an exit row seat" clearly hasn't sat in Row 3, which has a ton of space.

And the free alc in MCS makes it worth it alone -- thats a huge benefit for a free upgrade. Free food is nice, but whatever who cares. Alcohol is the true item of value on a plane.

"but whatever who cares?" Me. Some of the VX snacks are quite good.

The key here is that F on VX is actually real first class, not the "first class" that a lot of legacy airlines try to pass off as F. Just because they are labelled the same does not mean that they are the same. Your choices are, pay for something good, or get crap for free.

1. not just exit row seats.
2. free drinks as well as free food.

As Gold you get some free lounge passes at LAX. You also get free lounge access with some of their partners.

You are equating Economy Plus with MCS and UA F with VX F. That's just not a fair comparison.

UA flies a lot of planes. I looked at a short-haul flight that I fly often (SFO-LAS), and compared.

In F, both give you 21 inch wide seats. But VX gives you 55 in of pitch, while UA gives you 38 in. They are taking away your legroom by cramming a lot more seats into the same amount of space.

Comparing Premium Economy on UA to MCS on VX, you get an extra half-inch of seat width on VX (17.7 vs 17.2) and you get 38 in of pitch on VX vs 35 on UA. So in other words, the legroom in VX MCS is the same as the legroom in UA F. And on VX MCS you get free food and drinks. You just can't compare the two products. VX gives you a wider seat with more legroom and free food and drinks. It's not even remotely close. MCS is closer to UA F than it is to UA premium economy.

Just because an airline decides to label a class F, it doesn't mean that it's comparable to other F products. I don't consider 38 in of pitch to be a real F product. When I fly F on VX, I recline all the way and use up all of that space as I relax and sip my drink. If VX was willing to lower their standards to match UA, they could cram an extra row of F seats into the same amount of space (ie, 3 rows instead of 2). But they aren't willing to do that. That's why you have to pay for it -- it's actually worth paying for.

Sure you can. VX is better than UA.

I agree that overall VX is better than UA. That is a no-brainer. But the elite status on UA gets you a lot more than it does on VX. The odds that you sit in a bad coach seat (and VX's regular coach seats are just as bad as UA's) are much lower as a UA elite than as a VX elite. Your odds of getting some kind of upgrade, be it a better coach seat or an upgrade to a higher cabin, are better.

I agree F on VX is much better than F on UA. But if you can never get into it, what does it matter? On the routes I fly, it is very rare (less than one of 10 flights) that I can buy an upgrade into F, even with the 6 hour advantage of Elevate gold, and similarly rare to get an upgrade into MCS where something other than a middle seat is available. On UA I can get a window or aisle seat in Economy Plus just about every time as long as I'm not buying my ticket the day or two before the flight. This is a big difference.

The other point I disagree on is the difference between MCS and Economy Plus. Both are much better than a regular coach seat; the difference between them is much smaller for me than the difference between either one and a regular coach seat.

I agree with that because of the legroom. The main point here is that VX MCS has the same legroom as UA F. Furthermore, the free food and drinks are a significant bonus. My point is just that is is closer to UA F than UA Premium Economy, so free upgrades to MCS are worth a lot. The only thing that you are missing for UA F is the seat width (and they are still wider than UA Premium Economy)

Also, with status, you can pick the front EE row, which has the same legroom as MCS, but doesn't recline (which is why they are MC and not MCS seats). There isa $30 fee to select that seat at booking time, so they are almost always available (even the windows). But you don't have to pay the fee if you have status. So if you want a cheap window seat with legroom, that is always an option.

Personally, I just buy F outright (not upgrades). I find that with the points that I get (10 pts/$ for being gold) it's really not worth it to try to save a few dollars by hoping to be able to buy an upgrade (since you don't get any pts on the upgrade fee). The extra points often offset the potential savings, and you are guaranteed to get the sear. I can usually get the deepest-discount F fares so they really aren't very expensive (I fly mostly short-hauls; I realize that F is much more expensive for transcontinental flights)

If you could guarantee that you wouldn't end up in a middle seat, then I might agree with you. But most of the time an MCS upgrade takes me from a window or aisle to a middle seat, negating much of the value of the upgrade. That would never happen on a legacy airline because there are no middle seats in F.

Unfortunately on BOS-SFO the one-way F fares are in the range of $1600 (discounted) to $2200 (refundable), with coach in the $250 range and MCS around $700. MCS is not worth $450 if you can get the exit row in front of it (IMHO), and the premium for F is very large (well over $1000 each way).

Agree with others that VX MCS is closer to UA Domestic First than E+. The seat pitch is identical, it's just 3" of extra width in UA First. I already view UA First as "E+ with food and alcohol" anyway (and I don't drink much). I'd rather fly VX MCS over UA First as long as my neighbor isn't portly.

I was kind of surprised by this, but when I checked the prices, the cheapest SFO-BOS F seat I could find was $1500, and most were more.

The reason this surprised me is when I was looking a different transcon flight (SFO-FLL) it was possible to get F seats for $800. In this case the difference between booking F and booking MC and buying an upgrade is minimal (since the upgrade would be $400) and mostly offset by the fact that you don't get points for the upgrade fee (10 pts per $ = 22% back in points)

I wonder why the SFO-BOS flight is so much more expensive. I assume that there must be higher demand and/or less competition for that route?

There are a bunch of venture capital firms, biotech companies, and web companies with very senior people who fly back and forth regularly BOS-SFO. VX has only 16 seats/day of a product that is much better than the alternatives (UA F or JetBlue Even More Space), and with this group, price doesn't matter. So they (VX) are in the fortunate position of being able to charge what the market will bear, which is quite high. If they had more flights or more seats/flight, I'd guess the price would come down (and historically when they had 3 flights/day, it was lower).

I bear them no ill will for these prices; if that's what people will pay, the more power to them. But as someone buying somewhat cheaper seats, it limits the value of Silver for me.

That seems like a fair assessment. I did notice that if you were willing to take a connecting flight, you could get F seats for $1000 to $1100.

One of the great things about flying F is the people that you meet. It sounds like that BOS-SFO flight is a great place to meet people and maybe line yourself up for a career upgrade (only half kidding here)

Just curious, does the Gold free space-available MCS upgrade benefit also apply to award redemption MC tickets?

No, it does not.