Tanaka07

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...eagan/5615993/

What new could we see from DCA for VX?

fishy21

LGA-DCA. Since they already admitted they won't be used from transcon flights.

gooseman13

The schedule would be horrible though with just 4 daily flights.

N830MH

How about nonstop DCA-FLL or MCO?

BAR423

Hoping MCO so I can use my points to take the family to Disney

tonywestsider

VX would be better off with new routes from DCA to DFW and DCA to ORD, to build a better network. DCA to FLL and/or MCO would be good too, but that should come after DFW and ORD.

eponymous_coward

They only have 8 slots, so that means at most 4 flights total.

Having 2xDFW, 2xORD is probably better than 1xDFW, 1xORD, 1xFLL, 1xMCO. There's actually even nargument that 4x to one destination is better than 2x to two, if you're really angling for the business market. Business travelers love frequency.

I'm not sure I "get" VX's angle here at picking up LGA/DCA slots. Their hubs are beyond-perimeter, so aside from their one beyond-perimeter flight for SFO-DCA, they can't offer connectivity into their network out of one area airport (they have to split operations between JFK/EWR/LGA and IAD/DCA). The most logical places for them to fly are places where there's tons of competition (CHI, DAL/DFW), and are places where WN will be flying soon as well with THEIR slots (and they have a lot more DCA/LGA slots than VX does), and the competitors will completely smoke them on frequencies (and their competitors have actual hubs on one end, like WN, DL or UA, or BOTH ends like AA).

I know, their plans were never to try and be strictly a California airline... but making their next big thrust into airports where they are slot restricted and can't add frequencies into their hubs, as opposed to say, expanding into a midcon fortress hub like DFW, or expanding in SAN... weird. -shrug- I guess it's throwing darts at the route map again and they hit DCA/LGA?

LarkSFO

The opportunity to pick up these slots must have been too tempting to pass up, even if they appear to make little sense (to you and I, armchair airline CEO's ).

What restrictions are there on these slots? Does VX 'own' them without any strings?

Perhaps they can sell them, or barter them for slots they would like elsewhere? I imagine that there are restrictions that would prevent them from doing this.

Did VX have to guarantee some level of utilization to get these slots?

eponymous_coward

Let's just put it this way.

WN has something like 17 flights a day out of DCA, and 26 out of LGA. They won 27 additional slot pairs at DCA and 17 at LGA.

That, IMO, is adding a lot of power to a pretty decent-sized operation, and WN has lots of existing places where they can fly to; HOU, DAL, ATL, MDW, DEN that have good connectivity into all of WN's network.

VX has one, count it, one existing slot pair between both DCA and LGA: DCA-SFO. They're going to be able to add a very small handful of flights, to some destination where the only place they fly to is LAX and/or SFO (and they can't add any additional LAX/SFO flights out of LGA/DCA). VX will still be a tiny operation out of LGA compared to AA, UA, DL, WN... and smaller than AA, UA, WN and B6 out of DCA.

Places VX still doesn't fly to out of SFO/LAX: DEN, PHX, IAH, MSP, DTW, CLT, ATL...which is why I scratch my head about having a handful of LGA/DCA slots (but not enough to do WN-style "launch 3-5 destinations with 4x frequencies").

OzTraveller

Have you considered that David Cush is ex-AA based in Dallas. Consider that they go after the Love slots and transfer the DFW operations and operate DCA and LGA plus west coast from LUV against WN with frills.

LarkSFO

I don't know exactly the perimeter restrictions.

I am assuming DAL (Love) falls within both DCA and LGA distance restrictions?

I think it would be a lot easier for Mr. Cush to just move to SFO (or LAX), and for VX to focus on where they actually have a toehold!

eponymous_coward

Except if they go to DAL, they are locked in at (at best) 2 gates (and that assumes they get BOTH gates, which they might not- my guess is if the DOT rejects DL they will likely try and put in multiple carriers to be competitive with WN), and WN can cream them on frequencies to all their markets, given that WN has MORE slots at LGA and DCA, and MORE gates at DAL.

Whereas there's space to expand at DFW (so if VX wanted to actually make a go of it there, they could, whereas DAL is pretty much going to be a WN-only operation)... and to be blunt, I think the idea that WN is easier to knock off than AA is unproven. VX turned tail pretty quickly on SFO-SNA when WN showed up... and that was out of their hub, not WN's hub. VX's success has been based on poaching off of UA/AA, mostly. Changing targets to WN is... well, kind of random.

SocalApproach

You may be surprised....stay tuned!

eponymous_coward

Still think it's random. -shrug-

gooseman13

I have been mulling this over. Perhaps the thought is at DAL, competition is restricted (no other airline except Southwest essentially). Southwest may or may beat them on frequency (they can, but it will come at the expense of other flying at DAL). VX has a more business suited product, particularly for mid-haul.

I believe this is the only market where they would be going head to head without other competition.

Now whether customers ignore AA at DFW, I'm yet to be sold on. Cush talks as if they wouldn't be competition, I don't know if I agree.