Virgin America's New System
Nov 21, 2011, 11:13 pm
#61
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 235
VX used a system called AiRES. It was made by Travelport. Original customer was WestJet but they backed out before launching. VX was the only other AiRES customer at the time VX launched the airline. Others may have joined in. The idea with AiRES was to use lots of Internet technologies (like Web Services) to simplify and reduce costs.
Today the website for AiRES is non-existant. The Travelport sites doesn't seem to mention it either. They have migrated to SABRE. I do not know this but it would seem their hands may have been forced if AiRES was no longer supported. SABRE opens up a lot of doors, but taking an entire airline's system that was NOT built around legacy aviation rules and plugging it into one that is was probably more complicated than expected. And if they didn't have people who know both systems well, they could have had horrible integration issues.
My guess is that's what has happened. People who maybe know a bit about AiRES had to figure out how to map everything to SABRE. And things that didn't exist in AiRES but existed in SABRE had to be accounted for.
In any case, it's still messy - but I know a friend called on Friday to cancel a ticket during the middle of the day and got an agent in about 40 minutes, so maybe hold times are improving.
And for the person who said "Why would they do this the week before a major travel holiday" they didn't. They did it several weeks ago. It's just really got a lot of issues.
Today the website for AiRES is non-existant. The Travelport sites doesn't seem to mention it either. They have migrated to SABRE. I do not know this but it would seem their hands may have been forced if AiRES was no longer supported. SABRE opens up a lot of doors, but taking an entire airline's system that was NOT built around legacy aviation rules and plugging it into one that is was probably more complicated than expected. And if they didn't have people who know both systems well, they could have had horrible integration issues.
My guess is that's what has happened. People who maybe know a bit about AiRES had to figure out how to map everything to SABRE. And things that didn't exist in AiRES but existed in SABRE had to be accounted for.
In any case, it's still messy - but I know a friend called on Friday to cancel a ticket during the middle of the day and got an agent in about 40 minutes, so maybe hold times are improving.
And for the person who said "Why would they do this the week before a major travel holiday" they didn't. They did it several weeks ago. It's just really got a lot of issues.
Nov 29, 2011, 9:35 pm
#62
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: Enough to travel better
Posts: 2,020
Re: VX's new system: What should have been done was to organize an industry peer review of the new system through beta testing and lessons learned from the beta test. VX should have inquired with one of their airline partners, such as SQ, to see how SQ resolved/did not resolve their problems since SQ also migrated to a new website earlier this year. In SQ's case, their new website was a complete overhaul that literally debuted overnight last spring, without a beta test, which caused all sorts of problems with their customers. The complaints about SQ's new website was so high that they might have lost some customers in the process. VX could have learned from this experience because, while both carriers have different website related problems, essentially, there are common threads of issues that VX could have learned from others transitioning into something new.
Nov 29, 2011, 9:45 pm
#63
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Denver, CO
Programs: UA 1K 25 years/2MM, Honors LT Diamond, AVIS & Hertz Prez Club
Posts: 4,753
Since when are Virgin America and Singapore Airlines "partners" ?
And since when do airlines collaborate via "peer review" and reveal their proprietary systems and interfaces to their competitors?
And since when do airlines collaborate via "peer review" and reveal their proprietary systems and interfaces to their competitors?
Nov 29, 2011, 10:03 pm
#64
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: Enough to travel better
Posts: 2,020
http://virginamerica.com/travel/virgin-partners.html
Airlines don't have to reveal their proprietary systems to conduct a peer review. And quite frankly, VX and SQ aren't even competitors. How do you think they established a partnership if they were?
Nov 29, 2011, 10:09 pm
#65
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Denver, CO
Programs: UA 1K 25 years/2MM, Honors LT Diamond, AVIS & Hertz Prez Club
Posts: 4,753
Those "Partners" are for interlining.
Plenty of competing airlines interline. AA/UA/US/HA/CO/DL and others all interline within the USA - and they are all competitors to one another on various routes.
Sorry - but airlines don't share their systems with one another to review. You're suggestion is idealistic but not reasonable in the least.
Plenty of competing airlines interline. AA/UA/US/HA/CO/DL and others all interline within the USA - and they are all competitors to one another on various routes.
Sorry - but airlines don't share their systems with one another to review. You're suggestion is idealistic but not reasonable in the least.
Nov 29, 2011, 10:49 pm
#66
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: Enough to travel better
Posts: 2,020
Those "Partners" are for interlining.
Plenty of competing airlines interline. AA/UA/US/HA/CO/DL and others all interline within the USA - and they are all competitors to one another on various routes.
Sorry - but airlines don't share their systems with one another to review. You're suggestion is idealistic but not reasonable in the least.
Plenty of competing airlines interline. AA/UA/US/HA/CO/DL and others all interline within the USA - and they are all competitors to one another on various routes.
Sorry - but airlines don't share their systems with one another to review. You're suggestion is idealistic but not reasonable in the least.
Dec 1, 2011, 7:41 am
#67
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chicago, Il. USA
Posts: 428
Still having trouble
Flew Monday. Checked online for FC upgrade, seat map showed sold out. At airport told all seats gone. Plane flew all 8 seats empty. Not good for revenue.
At curbside check in I was told that I already had checked in and had already checked a bag. My "second" bag would be $25. After some back and forth they just took my bag at no extra charge.
There were a few people who showed up at the gate with TWO suitcases. How dumb right? Well not really. They got free gate check. Not good for revenue either.
At curbside check in I was told that I already had checked in and had already checked a bag. My "second" bag would be $25. After some back and forth they just took my bag at no extra charge.
There were a few people who showed up at the gate with TWO suitcases. How dumb right? Well not really. They got free gate check. Not good for revenue either.
Dec 1, 2011, 2:35 pm
#68
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 235
Flew Monday. Checked online for FC upgrade, seat map showed sold out. At airport told all seats gone. Plane flew all 8 seats empty. Not good for revenue.
At curbside check in I was told that I already had checked in and had already checked a bag. My "second" bag would be $25. After some back and forth they just took my bag at no extra charge.
There were a few people who showed up at the gate with TWO suitcases. How dumb right? Well not really. They got free gate check. Not good for revenue either.
At curbside check in I was told that I already had checked in and had already checked a bag. My "second" bag would be $25. After some back and forth they just took my bag at no extra charge.
There were a few people who showed up at the gate with TWO suitcases. How dumb right? Well not really. They got free gate check. Not good for revenue either.
Dec 2, 2011, 6:27 pm
#70
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 229
Dec 5, 2011, 2:04 pm
#72
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: sebastopol, ca, US
Posts: 69
VX meltdown
My family and I have been flying Virgin pretty much since they launched. Dismayed by the breakdown of the res system - booked a couple of flights for my mom and they didn't show up, couldn't tell if they were booked. Turned out they were, but one came through booked on wrong day. We spotted this within an hour of booking and tried to call them to fix it but held for more than an hour and couldn't get through. Finally got through today, five days after booking and they said they may have to add change fees, even though their malfunctioning system caused the problem and even though they weren't reachable by phone. Appalling.
What makes it worse if my mom is one of their most frequent flyers, traveling monthly from SFO-JFK-SFO. She's spent probably $25k with them, wonder if she'll keep flying with them. More to the point: I wonder if VX will be around long enough for that to matter. Their flight crews are cool and VX is a better customer experience in the air than legacy carriers but if they're ground cust service is so awful it'll make us - and probably many others - think twice about flying them.
What makes it worse if my mom is one of their most frequent flyers, traveling monthly from SFO-JFK-SFO. She's spent probably $25k with them, wonder if she'll keep flying with them. More to the point: I wonder if VX will be around long enough for that to matter. Their flight crews are cool and VX is a better customer experience in the air than legacy carriers but if they're ground cust service is so awful it'll make us - and probably many others - think twice about flying them.
Dec 5, 2011, 5:29 pm
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,386
So it's 40 days later and I still can't re-add a frequent flyer number to an existing reservation, and the hold times are still stupid, and things are still broken on the website.
Wow.
They're down to what, $25 million in free cash after all the red ink? Wonder how much cash this disaster's burned off.
Wow.
They're down to what, $25 million in free cash after all the red ink? Wonder how much cash this disaster's burned off.
Dec 5, 2011, 5:49 pm
#74
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: sebastopol, ca, US
Posts: 69
beginning of the end?
Who knows? But one thing is clear, when you frustrate customers this badly you clearly do long-term damage to the airline. Which is a shame because I'd rather fly VX than most of the legacies if I'm going coach.
Dec 5, 2011, 10:12 pm
#75
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: Enough to travel better
Posts: 2,020
The FT Hall of Fame?
I too am one of VX's frequent flyers every six weeks on their transcon flights. I've been through the website/reservations debacle during the Veteran's Day weekend. Now I have something that happened last week that might almost make the FT Hall of Fame. Here goes:
I made two one-way reservations online on VX's website last week. It was the last day of last week's sale and seats were supposedly going fast. The first reservation I made was correctly booked and appeared on their system. The second reservation showed a confirmation number and that the fare was booked for $241.70. The system could not e-mail a receipt. I later had difficulty trying to track the reservation. Nothing would show up on the website, even if I went to View Itinerary or log on through the Elevate account. So I waited the next day after the sale was over to see if I could retrieve the reservation. To my complete dismay, I found out that my credit card was charged $425 during the 14 hour period that I could not retrieve my reservation and not the $241.70 charge I thought I had approved. Unfortunately, I was unable to print out my receipt when I purchased the reservation so I had no proof that the ticket really sold for $241.70. I called VX to find out what happened. One of their reservation supervisors claimed that there was no such $241.70 fare on their system the day before and that the fares showed $425 for that route segment and fare class. I immediately had the flight canceled via telephone call. It took 2 hours to cancel the flight. I was absolutely appalled. I told VX is this how they treat Elevate Founding members this way? This was unbelievable.
So without trying to seem delusional, I almost thought there was an online bait and switch, with what seems to be the $241.70 being purchased, then no ability to track the reservation, then finding out 14 hours later that the credit card used to purchase the reservation was being charged $425. Perhaps it was a changeover at the end of a fare sale but still, this is rotten airline management.
I made two one-way reservations online on VX's website last week. It was the last day of last week's sale and seats were supposedly going fast. The first reservation I made was correctly booked and appeared on their system. The second reservation showed a confirmation number and that the fare was booked for $241.70. The system could not e-mail a receipt. I later had difficulty trying to track the reservation. Nothing would show up on the website, even if I went to View Itinerary or log on through the Elevate account. So I waited the next day after the sale was over to see if I could retrieve the reservation. To my complete dismay, I found out that my credit card was charged $425 during the 14 hour period that I could not retrieve my reservation and not the $241.70 charge I thought I had approved. Unfortunately, I was unable to print out my receipt when I purchased the reservation so I had no proof that the ticket really sold for $241.70. I called VX to find out what happened. One of their reservation supervisors claimed that there was no such $241.70 fare on their system the day before and that the fares showed $425 for that route segment and fare class. I immediately had the flight canceled via telephone call. It took 2 hours to cancel the flight. I was absolutely appalled. I told VX is this how they treat Elevate Founding members this way? This was unbelievable.
So without trying to seem delusional, I almost thought there was an online bait and switch, with what seems to be the $241.70 being purchased, then no ability to track the reservation, then finding out 14 hours later that the credit card used to purchase the reservation was being charged $425. Perhaps it was a changeover at the end of a fare sale but still, this is rotten airline management.