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Each and every tipping thread on FT and elsewhere very clearly show what a nuisance tipping is to both the public and the travel industry.
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The reason there's all this conflict is because the amount of tip expected in the US is much greater than the norm elsewhere in the world. Why not pay waiters etc. minimum wage, and let them supplement that with 'normal' tips. It stills maintains incentive to provide good service, and diners would be more willing to leave 5 - 10% than 15 - 20%.
In my experience, Americans like to throw money at anyone with a tip jar, including dropping loose change at a 7-11. |
It is the whole concept of tipping that doesn't work in practise.
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Does it make me sound like a Communist if I say that all this tipping is vulgar?
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Originally Posted by PTM
(Post 14216406)
What is a suitable tip for spa services in hotels, and those 'high-street' manicure/pedicure shops?
Originally Posted by PTM
(Post 14216406)
Also, when buying expensive bottles of wine/champagne in restaurants should I pay an additional 20% on top? $60+ for just opening each bottle seemed excessive to me when I recovered from the consequential hangover! In the end we paid over $350 in gratuity just for the wine.
For wine served by a waiter, see post #78. 20% may be high, but you definitely don't want to cause the server to lose money. If I buy an expensive bottle of wine (i.e a significant portion of the total bill), I usually tip about 10% on the wine portion and 20% on the food portion. The problem is that the traditional guideline for tipping (10-15% of the pre-tax bill, excluding alcohol) is in the process of changing to 15-20% of the total bill (including tax and alcohol), so even we Americans are confused.
Originally Posted by User Name
(Post 14216039)
No - don't worry about it. Some people tip valets, some don't. If you're paying $40 for parking then there's no need to add to the expense. As someone said earlier - tip waiters, bartenders and taxi drivers - all others are optional and at your discretion, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Please tip the chambermaids. $2 per night is very appreciated. |
Originally Posted by Karter
(Post 14218196)
Does it make me sound like a Communist if I say that all this tipping is vulgar?
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some good points here:
1. Tipping Encourages Misleading Advertising To me, I am effectively dealing with a business that quotes a misleadingly cheap price to get my attention, who then ask for an additional fee to get fulfilment of the service. This stinks of corruption and is completely against the ideals of capitalism, which relies upon transparency. It appears that the reason tipping took off in America was because it allowed an employer to hire staff at a ridiculously low wage, to avoid taxes. 2. Tipping Promotes Idleness Amongst Employees When I go out, I want the same level of service from each waiter – someone who can understand and take an order, and then bring the food out promptly. I found, more often than not, service was actually worse in the USA. Although most restaurants had multiple waiters, I usually had to wait for the specific waiter that was assigned to my table, in order to make it easy for them to distribute the tips. As a result, many waiters were standing around twiddling their thumbs, which is very inefficient. 3. No Objective Measure to Value the Quality of Service It is stated that tip is designed to pay and reward the waiter for their ‘good’ service. In practice, I paid close to 15% to everybody, as there is no objective yardstick to judge what ‘good’ service is. A number of times, a waiter kept coming back to give long speeches offering me more dishes, or alternative variations. To them, they were providing good service. To me, they were hassling me to eat and purchase more than I had originally asked for, and this detracted from the experience. I reckon that If the bean counters in the business can prove that a certain staff member is able to attract more business, this should be recognised with a raise following a salary review. 4. No Competition When I go to a restaurant, would it be acceptable for me to ask for the waiter who will charge the lowest tip? Surely, this should be allowed in a capitalist system. Also, let’s say I don’t like the waiters in a restaurant. Would I be allowed to bring my own personal waiter who will then be responsible for taking the food from the kitchen and cleaning up after me, and I will pay him myself? I don’t think so. 5. Promotes Discrimination Against Less Wealthy Customers Apparently, tips were originally 10% and they have crept higher over the years, and are now between 15% and 20%. One explanation is that wealthier people have been paying progressively higher tips to obtain better service than others, and this would result in lesser well-off groups of people receiving inferior service. Is this acceptable? http://herestrouble.com/archive/tipping-sux/ References I found this excellent paper written by an economist who discusses the history of tipping in America and beautifully outlines the case against tipping in great detail: http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...st_tipping.pdf |
I found this excellent video about the issue of tipping in America.
Hopefully it will be helpful http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_pdC7IEz1o |
Originally Posted by wbl-mn-flyer
(Post 14209882)
Tipping your maids daily or at the end of the stay is done by some people but is not really customary nor is it expected.
Now, I generally rely on the excellent iTip app on the iPhone (which I often need to refer to in the taxi when arriving in a new country, to find out whether I need to tip the cab driver!). For the US, it includes "tip maids $1 - $5 a day". |
Originally Posted by Hannibel Lecter
some good points here:
1. Tipping Encourages Misleading Advertising To me, I am effectively dealing with a business that quotes a misleadingly cheap price to get my attention, who then ask for an additional fee to get fulfilment of the service. This stinks of corruption and is completely against the ideals of capitalism, which relies upon transparency. It appears that the reason tipping took off in America was because it allowed an employer to hire staff at a ridiculously low wage, to avoid taxes. 2. Tipping Promotes Idleness Amongst Employees When I go out, I want the same level of service from each waiter – someone who can understand and take an order, and then bring the food out promptly. I found, more often than not, service was actually worse in the USA. Although most restaurants had multiple waiters, I usually had to wait for the specific waiter that was assigned to my table, in order to make it easy for them to distribute the tips. As a result, many waiters were standing around twiddling their thumbs, which is very inefficient. 3. No Objective Measure to Value the Quality of Service It is stated that tip is designed to pay and reward the waiter for their ‘good’ service. In practice, I paid close to 15% to everybody, as there is no objective yardstick to judge what ‘good’ service is. A number of times, a waiter kept coming back to give long speeches offering me more dishes, or alternative variations. To them, they were providing good service. To me, they were hassling me to eat and purchase more than I had originally asked for, and this detracted from the experience. I reckon that If the bean counters in the business can prove that a certain staff member is able to attract more business, this should be recognised with a raise following a salary review. 4. No Competition When I go to a restaurant, would it be acceptable for me to ask for the waiter who will charge the lowest tip? Surely, this should be allowed in a capitalist system. Also, let’s say I don’t like the waiters in a restaurant. Would I be allowed to bring my own personal waiter who will then be responsible for taking the food from the kitchen and cleaning up after me, and I will pay him myself? I don’t think so. 5. Promotes Discrimination Against Less Wealthy Customers Apparently, tips were originally 10% and they have crept higher over the years, and are now between 15% and 20%. One explanation is that wealthier people have been paying progressively higher tips to obtain better service than others, and this would result in lesser well-off groups of people receiving inferior service. Is this acceptable? http://herestrouble.com/archive/tipping-sux/
Originally Posted by wbl-mn-flyer
(Post 14242164)
I found this excellent video about the issue of tipping in America.
Hopefully it will be helpful http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_pdC7IEz1o Please note: I am not referring to those who find the practice confusing or annoying but, nonetheless, tip as appropriate, but those who refuse to tip, thinking their personal act of defiance does anything other than reflect poorly on them and, by extension, their fellow countrymen. I truly find some attitudes expressed in this thread extraordinary. When I travel internationally, I am always conscious of the fact that I am a guest in the host country, and conduct myself accordingly. My wife is Chinese and in my household we observe the Chinese custom of removing our shoes before entering our home. Our guests comply with our custom without complaint, irrespective of what they may think of the practice. A guest who demands that he walk on our carpets with shoes on would not be welcome. |
Originally Posted by PTravel
(Post 14246356)
There is no "issue" about tipping in America. It's really very simple: In America, tipping is the norm. If you are a visitor to America from another country and determine that you will not comply with American cultural conventions, you will be perceived, and are acting, as a boorish cultural imperialist -- please stay home.
Please note: I am not referring to those who find the practice confusing or annoying but, nonetheless, tip as appropriate, but those who refuse to tip, thinking their personal act of defiance does anything other than reflect poorly on them and, by extension, their fellow countrymen. I truly find some attitudes expressed in this thread extraordinary. When I travel internationally, I am always conscious of the fact that I am a guest in the host country, and conduct myself accordingly. My wife is Chinese and in my household we observe the Chinese custom of Weremoving our shoes before entering our home. Our guests comply with our custom without complaint, irrespective of what they may think of the practice. A guest who demands that he walk on our carpets with shoes on would not be welcome. |
Originally Posted by PTravel
(Post 14246356)
Our guests comply with our custom without complaint, irrespective of what they may think of the practice. A guest who demands that he walk on our carpets with shoes on would not be welcome.
IF a tip is truly technically optional, then I have the right not to give it. IF however it is a part of the fee (equivalent to the practice of adding sales taxes ontop of displayed prices) and a mandator services charge that is part of the official tarrif, then it has to be paid. You need to make up your mind about whether it is technically discretionary or not. |
Originally Posted by PTravel
(Post 14246356)
There is no "issue" about tipping in America. It's really very simple: In America, tipping is the norm. If you are a visitor to America from another country and determine that you will not comply with American cultural conventions, you will be perceived, and are acting, as a boorish cultural imperialist -- please stay home.
Please note: I am not referring to those who find the practice confusing or annoying but, nonetheless, tip as appropriate, but those who refuse to tip, thinking their personal act of defiance does anything other than reflect poorly on them and, by extension, their fellow countrymen. I truly find some attitudes expressed in this thread extraordinary. When I travel internationally, I am always conscious of the fact that I am a guest in the host country, and conduct myself accordingly. My wife is Chinese and in my household we observe the Chinese custom of removing our shoes before entering our home. Our guests comply with our custom without complaint, irrespective of what they may think of the practice. A guest who demands that he walk on our carpets with shoes on would not be welcome. There's a big difference between how you rightly expect people to behave when they come to your house - I won't accept smoking - and how much you can reasonably expect when they come to "your" country. Personally I will tip what the service is worth and I couldn't care less what others think about it - its my very hard earned money. |
Originally Posted by David-A
(Post 14246474)
Not a good analogy. You have the right to decide who comes into your house and how they are dressed.
IF a tip is truly technically optional, then I have the right not to give it. IF however it is a part of the fee (equivalent to the practice of adding sales taxes ontop of displayed prices) and a mandator services charge that is part of the official tarrif, then it has to be paid. You need to make up your mind about whether it is technically discretionary or not. |
Originally Posted by David-A
(Post 14246474)
Not a good analogy. You have the right to decide who comes into your house and how they are dressed.
IF a tip is truly technically optional, then I have the right not to give it. IF however it is a part of the fee (equivalent to the practice of adding sales taxes ontop of displayed prices) and a mandator services charge that is part of the official tarrif, then it has to be paid. You need to make up your mind about whether it is technically discretionary or not. |
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