bkafrick

Yes, you are correct. Sorry.

iztok

You don't want to hear 6

On one of my flights someone pressed the wrong button when we were preparing for landing and boy was it interesting to watch FAs look around the moment they heard those 6 dings.

BoeingBoy

The number of "dings" signifies the message in general. They changed a number of years ago because the Airbuses didn't have a single "ding" - two was the minimum when you pushed the button so 2, 4, & 6 were the only thing you could get. The Boeings were a single "ding" per push.

The most common is 2 "dings" for standard events - passing 10,000' for example. IIRC, 4 is for the lead FA to call the cockpit. Finally, 6 is prepare for an emergency - normally an emergency landing but could be any emergency and the lead FA would call the cockpit to get details.

Jim

bkafrick

On Piedmont (I fly the Dash-8 a lot), they still have single dings... And its 3 single dings to prepare for landing.

So, I do believe theres differences in the carriers.

WiscAZ

What is the sound you hear right before landing? It sounds like a cell phone ring or something similar. I generally only here it when I am in F.

split8s

I asked a pilot once while riding the F bus in PHL, and he told me it was a signal that the auto-pilot had been disengaged.

BoeingBoy

I've got to get out of the habit of assuming that everybody knows that I'm talking about US mainline...

Jim

bkafrick

So, I stand corrected. Took the Piedmont Dash-8 home last night, and I listened closely. It is a double-ding, and it is 3 doubles (6 chimes) for prepare for landing.

Maybe the double-ding is now standard.

SFO 1K

And I thought it was when the aircraft intercepted the localizer. Better go "Ask the Pilot" on this one.

BoeingBoy

The noise could be when intercepting the localizer or autopilot disconnect - some pilots hand fly from localizer capture to the runway (so autopilot disconnected at loc capture) while others let the automation handle things further inbound - like glide slope capture, 1000' AGL, 500' AGL - before disconnecting the autopilot and getting that sound.

NOTE: technically there's no autopilot on fly-by-wire planes (777/787, E170/75/90/95 & A330/320). There's three identical computers that fly the plane, or 2 if the 3rd disagrees, based on inputs from either a mode control panel (Boeing terminology) or the yoke (again Boeing or side stick in Airbuses). There is no separate computer called an autopilot so the sound is there to signify an imaginary autopilot being disconnected, just like it's there for a real autopilot disconnect in pre-fly-by-wire planes. For all planes the exact sound varies between manufacturers but all share a "warbling tone" continuous sound that is silenced by pushing the "autopilot" disconnect button a second time. Thus what is heard in FC is a short "warbling" sound for normal "autopilot" disconnect.



Jim

TravelinPhilly

Can a plane literally take off and land via auto pilot or whatever they call it?

There was an interesting article in The Atlantic which made the case that we are all losing skills because of automation and they used pilots as a example. Something about some recent crashes where more experienced pilots would have instinctively known what to do.

SFO 1K

Planes (certain planes) have auto land. There are plenty of conditions and restrictions - but planes can and do land themselves all the time.

I believe a pilot has to get a plane over to the end of the runway and set it all up for takeoff - and push the throttles, but there is a point on some modern planes where the plane takes over the throttles before wheels up.

This is a very general answer and I'm sure we have some experts who can expand on my response.

wto605

I am not a pilot, nor do I have any qualification to answer this... but I've geeked out about the question before.

There are some great answers (a few years back) in the UAL "Ask a Pilot" thread. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...-q-thread.html (I would suggest looking for auto-land). Here's a quick summary of what can and can't be done.

1) A plane can auto-land if it has the necessary equipment, the airport has the necessary equipment, and the weather is relatively calm. Pilots can actually land in rougher weather than an auto-land, so essentially it only helps with low-visibility landings.
2) The autopilot can be programed for the entire expected route and follow this route. Or it can manually be told to fly x heading at y speed and z altitude (until told otherwise). This choice depends on what's going on in the cockpit etc.
3) A plane cannot take off on its own. There's a great discussion in the above thread about how a computer simply cannot make the decisions a pilot is making while beginning the takeoff roll (an engine flames-out, do I try and stop or go around?). The regular autopilot can be engaged at surprising low altitudes (if I recall it's 500 feet) depending on the aircraft/autopilot, company policy, and what the pilot can/want's to do.

As for automation dependency it actually is less about autopilot than you may think. This video is a bit long but very informative (and cool in my opinon).

TravelinPhilly

If anybody is interested here is the article I mentioned. Not sure if I completely agree with all of it but it does raise some interesting points.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...etting/309516/

BoeingBoy

Looks like a pretty good synopsis of the capabilities of modern planes.

There is some thought, backed by studies, that humans make poor monitors especially when its rare to have something go wrong. I'll be surprised if the NTSB doesn't mention that in the final report on the KAL crash a few months ago. Three experienced pilots didn't recognize a problem developing due to state of the art automation.

Jim