Upgrading military personnel by F/A's
 

So I was reading a thread on another board and I just have a question:

Is it against policy for F/A's to upgrade military personnel in uniform once on board? This thread I was reading was implying that a US F/A was suspended for 12 days for moving 4 military personnel into the 4 remaining open seats in F. If this is true, that makes me absolutely sick and I hope that F/A fights it. I would also like to implore our fellow FT'ers with a companion upgrade to see that our returning soliders are treated to a seat upfront for the sacrifices they have given. I would also ask that our fellow FT'ers go the extra mile to give up his/her F seat in a sold out F section to an individual returning home from active duty. Whether it be 30 mins or 2 hours, I think those of us not in the military can tough it in cattle. If these guys can do it in a tank for 18 months, we wont wither away in coach!

Sorry for the rant but I just got angry reading if what happened to this F/A is indeed true......

This has happened on 3 separate occasions. Twice, the aircraft door closed, and the FA went back into coach and moved up someone in uniform. The third time I actually commented to an FA that there's an empty seat in F across the aisle from me, and that I noticed a woman in Army gear walk back into coach. The FA smiled and went and brought her up.

I think this is commendable. If the seat's going to go out empty, why not? What's the harm?

If an FA was really suspended for this I think that's terrible. Perhaps there's more to the story? Did the FA move the person up instead of a preferred flyer?

In my eyes, it shouldn't matter if he was moved up over a preferred flier.....if that is the case, i'd throw the jacka** off the plane.....im sorry having 3 members of my family serving in Iraq at one point, this should be a no brainer.....give it to the military guy/gal

I certainly hope there's more to this story that we're not hearing. If not, this is an absolute disgrace. Hopefully though, the more to the story is not a FF becoming upset that someone in the military was upgraded first.

As a side note I think I remember hearing somewhere that military members are not supposed to travel in uniform if it's avoidable to avoid preferential treatment. I also think I remember they're not supposed to ask F if flying in Y ets. Not 100% sure on these though.

I've seen it happen a number of times this year and never heard anyone do anything other than thank the individual for their service. I can't imagine someone being suspended for this and it surely would have been headline material.

We crew members love our military men and women, however there are those unfortunates that insist on being jerks and turning f/a's in for such decisions. I for one spoil them and most are very kind and gracious. For the life of me I can't see why anyone would be so difficult about this.:confused:

I can't imagine they were suspended just for upgrading them, unless someone did complain. I will always upgrade servicemen and women if I have the seats. The only time I have had FF's complain was when someone already seated in FC gave up there seat for the person in uniform and took their seat in Y. And that has only happened a couple of times, most of the time people are happy to leave the situation alone. I will usually only upgrade them after the flight has been closed out and the door is closed, at that point everyone that should have been upgraded would have been.
Would love to hear the entire story on this one and BTW, upgrading servicemen and women is not against company procedure at all! :)

I guess that complaining FF was mentally sick.

Last year I was flying PHL - NAS and once the door was closed, the F/As spoke briefly with each other and went back and retrieved a young guy from coach to sit in F. Not sure if its policy, but it made my day seeing how excited the kid was to be sitting up front.

Ok, I'll play devil's advocate.

Does traveling in uniform automatically mean the person is en route to or from a combat zone? How does one know that it's not simply service man or woman traveling on official business? Say from DC to San Diego? Seattle to Los Angeles? Honolulu to the mainland? Okinawa to the US?

I'm not sure where I stand on the idea of giving members of the military a free upgrade. I can see both sides of the argument here. While I do lean heavily towards giving the upgrade to the military personnel (especially if it would otherwise go empty), I do acknowledge that serving in the allegedly all volunteer military (nevermind the policies that amount to a back door draft, a topic for OMNI) should not entitle a person to freebies over others who are entitled to such freebies following the established guidelines.

And so I'll probably get flamed for this.. I'll survive.

Flaming is not necessary, I believe the post is clear and sad.

I have no relatives in the military nor do I know anyone in the military and frankly I do not care if they clean toilets. The seat goes to the solder.

I agree with AZ guy. I have no problem when there is empty seat or if someone gives out their seat. As far as I am concerned I would give up my seat if knowing service man is returning from combat duty (or heading to it). But I wouldn't do that for desk clerk wearing uniform.

I have seen military personnel upgraded into empty seats on numerous occasions, it is the right thing to do.

I have never considered giving up my FC seat to a soldier BUT...

I did give up a coach seat so a stand-by soldier on leave could get on the flight. He was so excited to be going home I did think he would have cared if they put him in the John for the whole flight. BTW... Two other FF's did they same thing so two other soldiers could get home. The next flight was in 4 hours, those 4 hours meant a lot more to them than us.

I guess this varies based on war-time vs. peace-time but I would assume, given the current state of our military, almost everyone in the military at this point has either seen a tour in Iraq/Afghanastan or will very soon. IMO even a desk clerk who is going to or has spent time away from friends and family with limited contact deserves as much as we can give. Of course, YMMV (and no, I've never served)

In such situations, this is clearly a judgement call on the individual who gives up his or her seat for the military member. It seems morally right to do so if it's a soldier, sailor, airman or marine in a combat zone en route to or from.

And while in current times it's highly likely the military people we encounter are headed to or from such duty stations, it's not obvious. It could easily be personnel returning to duty at a domestic base. Maybe someone returning home from 6 weeks of Air Force basic training. Does this person deserve to be moved to first class - whether there's qualified elites around or not?

And then what about in times of peace when we are not as engaged in armed conflict around the world in such numbers? Is there a cutoff on grade and rank? Do E-7's or O-4's and above get the same treatment? Should an Admiral be moved up? (Do flag officers even fly in Y?)

First, I'd like to see more than "I read somewhere someone implying they heard something" to substantiate this. US isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, IMHO, but this strains credulity.

Second, while I have upgraded military personnel as companions and would give up my seat, there are reasons we have rules and guidelines, and a FF should have the right to a seat before a non-status flier. We certainly reserve the right to express our disagreement with their decision making, and would hope that many fliers would make what I consider the right decision. But I do have to say that ignoring program rules and making executive decisions on board isn't a good idea. Just think about how FT'ers freak out when a company doesn't follow the program rules when the benefit us.

If someone can provide a link that verifies the story, an email storm raining on Tempe sounds like a good idea. Media included.

I thought one has to be on the same itinerary for upgrade?

Am I wrong? How does that work? One just goes to GA and asks if there are any FC seats still available and if they are ask if s/he can upgrade particular soldier as your companion?

CPRich,
It is the responsibility of the agents to place FF's in FC. They know who is on the list and should always call up any FF up who is seated in coach by the time the door closes. If after the door closes there is a seat, that tells me that no other FF's are on the list. That is the time that those generous f/a's upgrade our military men and women.

I understand what you are saying and I do agree with you. It is not the GA or FA's job to make executive decisions; however, as I said in my earlier post I wait until the flight is closed out and the door is closed before I upgrade military folks. Trust me, if we still have an empty seat and the door is getting ready to close most FF's will let you know without a doubt that they are on the upgrade list and got overlooked.
I will only put military folks in FC under 2 circumstances.
(1) The seat is going to be empty
(2) A FF or any other FC passenger volunteers their seat.
Anything else is out of my hands and I do not play Upgrade God ;)

up 1;)^^^

Since we're playing devil's advocate - where do you think that AF kid is headed after spending a few weeks at home?

Ultimately, as we've heard several times, it's up to the FA's if the door is closed and there are empty F seats and it's up to the individual FFer if he/she wants to give up his/her seat. Kudos to those who do.

Say I want to give up my seat? What's the protocol? Do I tell the FA, and ask him/her to do it?

Yes! You would more than likely get a very warm reception from ALL the f/a's!:):-:

I believe the military is subject to federal government travel policies, which generally provide for exceptions to Y travel only in cases of medical disabilities, direct flights in excess of 14 hours, and some exceptional circumstances.

http://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/Sections/Air_Gov.cfm
http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/ad2007_01.pdf

In before the lock!

If you already have your seat assignment, just telling the FA seems like the right approach.

I've been comfortably seated in an exit row when approached by the gate agent telling me there's a seat up front. I asked if I could give it to someone else...GA says 'who?'...I say the uniformed guy in row 4...she looks and says ok. Military guy seems happy.

I'm squarely on the fence on this issue though.

If those guys/gals are heading for Dallas you can pretty much bet they are heading to combat from leave. And whocares if they are not. Give them the seat its good Karma

What if...
What if the the meal served for the upgraded service member was his last "good" meal? I served in the USMC and found the food to be not "top chef" caliber. Does anyone remember ham and Muthaf#%ers?

I dont mind.

Wow, I didn't think this would get much discussion but thank you flight62 and GalleyWench for your insight. For those interested, here is the post I read. The site that it came off of is password protected so I cannot copy and paste the link:

Post
Does anyone know if it's true that a flight attendant who allowed 4 marines home from Iraq to move into available seats in 1st class was turned in and given 12 days off for breaking policy last week? Have we truly come to be the lowest class carrier when crew aren't allowed to treat returning military personnel to the service they should receive? I've heard that this wasn't allowed under "America West policy". Say it aint so doug!

I mainly fly on UA and have seen this happen before on a few occasions. Once it happened on a redeye and some of the upgraded military personnel were talking loudly all night, which made it hard for me to sleep.

That said, I don't have a problem with it, and think it ends up building employee morale (and, in the long run improving service to everyone) when F/As are allowed to perform random acts of kindness.

If we want to get specific, that AF kid is likely headed right back to Lackland for Tech School. Maybe he'll serve in the back of a C-5, C-17, C-130, C-131 based stateside and never spend more than a few hours in a foreign country.

All karma aside: It's just my viewpoint that a uniform should not instantly open doors for people. Strike up a conversation, learn where the person's headed or where they're coming from. Just a little small talk could solve that and determine whether the individual is deserving of the random generosity.

I refer to this bit of evidence: My best friend served the US Navy from Dec 1997 until Nov 2005. In all that time, she was never stationed anywhere besides Great Lakes, IL; Naples, Italy; and Honolulu, HI. No sea duty. It was simply an electronics maintenance job that she exploited to foster her own travel passions. It may as well have been a private contractor job. She traveled in uniform more than once - should she have been provided automatic upgrades by FA's or GA's?

If we're talking karma, then random conversations with other travelers which reveal traveling public safety providers, Peace Corps volunteers, UNICEF workers and other NGO staff, etc - the same random "op-ups" should happen to them as well.

Hate to be a downer, but....

Seated next to a marine captain on a flight transcon, I saw him refuse the upgrade to F. I asked him about it, and it turns out that "Da Rules" state that service members are not supposed to accept an upgrade to F, and it is quite likely that it was the servicemembers who got in trouble, and not the FA.

It's a BS rule, and I only heard it from the one source, but, if it's true, it could lend some credence to the OP's story.

THAT SAID:
I know that I, for one, would never narc on a military person for accepting an upgrade, and think that anyone who would needs to go ahead across the border, never to return. These men and women put their lives on the line to preserve our right to be jerks; people who disrespect that enough to begrudge them one of the few perqs of being military don't deserve to be here as citizen or tourist, IMHO.

I've never had a problem at the gate. I'm sure you need to be on the same itin for advance upgrades.

In posts above, "Hopefully though, the more to the story is not a FF becoming upset that someone in the military was upgraded first" and "In my eyes, it shouldn't matter if he was moved up over a preferred flier." - that is what I was referring to.

If the FF list is cleared and seats are open then yes, it's a non-issue and I fully agree with you, GW, and others on priorities.

Gotcha~;)

Personally I think it's a nice thing to do and I certainly appreciate it. But I don't think it should be done over someone who has status and has a right to the upgrade.

The big problem for me is - I can't take advantage of the free alcohol when in uniform. ;)

Here's what the Joint Travel Regulation says...

10. UPGRADES ON OFFICIAL TRAVEL.

1. An employee may accept an upgrade to first class (or business class) on official travel in any of the following circumstances.

1. It is an on-the-spot upgrade that is generally available to the public (or at least to all Federal employees or all military members). Examples include an upgrade to a first class airline seat to remedy overcrowding in coach class, and an upgrade to a larger rental car due to a shortage of smaller cars or for customer relations purposes. JER para. 4-202a(1).

2. The upgrade results from a promotional offer that is realistically available to the general public (or to all Federal employees or all military members). For example: an upgrade to first class that is offered to anyone who opens a frequent flyer account. JER para. 4-202a(2). This includes vouchers or upgrade stickers which are sometimes provided through the Government contract travel office.

3. The upgrade is offered to anyone who accumulates enough frequent flyer miles to belong to a club or group (such as the Gold Card Club), even if some or all of the miles are from official travel. JER para. 4-202b. For example, an employee who flies 50,000 miles or more in a year on an airline can be a member of the airline’s Gold Card Club. If the airline gives all of its Gold Card Club members a free upgrade to first class and the employee earns a membership in the Club as a result of 50,000 miles of official travel, the employee may keep the first class upgrade. The upgrade is the property of the employee, who can do with it whatever he or she wants (e.g., use it for official travel, use it for personal travel, give it to his or her spouse, sell it, or donate it to charity).

2. However, no upgrade may be accepted if it is provided on the basis of the employee’s grade or position. JER para. 4-202a(1).

First, I am fully in support of upgrading "deserving individuals" to F if all qualified FFers have already been upgraded or refused the upgrade.

That said, the above quote might indicate that upgrades of military personnel solely on the basis of being military personnel in-uniform would be a violation of the US Government travel policies. Clearly, the upgrades are being given precisely because of the employee's position.

As someone who's often seated in FC, can I just go up to someone in uniform before boarding and say, "hey, can I interest you in swapping seats?" and show the person my FC ticket?

I don't want to insult the person (by assuming s/he is in coach) and don't want to get the person in trouble, but having lived in NYC on 9/11, I'm very grateful for our military!

Yes, although explain it a little more so they won't be confused. (Some of them have never been in first before, and are a little nervous about it.)
I've done it a few times, and I usually walk up to the person before boarding and let them know that I appreciate their service to our country, and as a way of thanking them personally, I would like to give them my seat in first class, and take their seat in coach. Some are a little confused on how this would happen, since they have a ticket that says 23B, so I just explain that we switch boarding passes, and let them know that the FA's are OK with it. (Some think that they might get kicked out of F if they don't belong there.)

Then I mention the switch as I pass the FA for First, and they've always been pleased that I did it.

I'm telling ya, you will make the day of almost every F/A if you tell them you are doing this. No matter what our views on the war are or what out political affiliation, we F/A's LOVE our military men and women!:)

I have to say, I am very pleasantly surprised by all of the positive posts here. Except for a very small minority, most of the posts agree with the idea of supporting the troops with upgrades. ^ I say this because I personally have gotten into it several times in the past with some of the more "berkleyish" members of FT that would rather scold members of the military than show them any appreciation. :td:

That said, I'd like to add that if you see a Marine flying in a tan digital camouflage uniform, they are most likely returning to or from a combat zone. Marines are not normally allowed to wear these uniforms in public except in a circumstance like that. I don't think the Army or other services follow this same rule, although that certainly doesn't mean they are not returning from combat.

I can chime in here...a little. I never really thought of going out of my way to u/g servicemen (women). This was until about 2 1/2 years ago. I was flying MSP-PHL. (NW) Guy behind me called the F/A and requested to give up his seat to a uniformed serviceman. The elite was gathering his stuff, as the serviceman came forward and thanked the guy over and over.

Overheard the serviceman say to the guy sitting next to him that he had a MIDDLE seat in the rear of the plane. That was about all.

Upon landing at PHL, it was requested via announcement that we all wait in our seats until the serviceman could deplane. I was right behind him, and when I turned the corner to the jetbridge, I saw the request. A herse was waiting at the bottom of the stairs, and they were off-loading a casket with full honor colors. I waited at the end of the jetbridge for an associate, and would say a good 1/2 of the people off the plane were shedding tears. The ceremony that took place was watched by most of the people on the plane from the window.

That evening, I picked up the stack of newspapers on my porch, and read in it how a person close to my town had been killed in Iraq, and he was to be laid to rest later the next day. Not sure if that was him, but it was touching!

From that point on...ANY time I see a uniformed servicemember, I ALWAYS give my F seat up. (usually purchased F) Traveling through ATL alot, I have seen MANY young, brave souls just returning, or heading overseas!