"Ahhh, folks, we can't seem to retract the landing gear"

 
Old Apr 21, 08, 11:42 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by chicagorich View Post
In an emergency situation, the pilot would dump fuel to reach a safe landing weight. In a non-emergency situation like this one...a more environmentally friendly option to reach a safe landing weight was appropriate.

.
If I am not mistaken, an Airbus 320 cannot dump fuel - it just doesn't have that capability. In a real emergency, you would land with full tanks and fingers crossed.
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Old Apr 21, 08, 11:47 pm
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Originally Posted by chicagorich View Post
In an emergency situation, the pilot would dump fuel to reach a safe landing weight. In a non-emergency situation like this one...a more environmentally friendly option to reach a safe landing weight was appropriate.

.

Most narrow body aircraft lack the ability to dump fuel so thats not an option for most domestic flights. Planes can land overweight but they will require an overweight inspection and additional ground time and costs. If the situation is not critical, ops will advise the pilots to burn off fuel and land once the plane is below maximum landing weight.
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Old Apr 22, 08, 12:12 am
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I'll just second (third?) what PHLDividends and audio-nut said - narrowbody twin-engine aircraft generally don't have fuel dumping capability since they meet the performance requirements without it. I'm not even sure that the A333/B762 have fuel dumping capability.

In the event of a problem necessitating a return for landing, it becomes an issue of which is more important - getting back on the ground as quickly as possible thus landing over max landing weight or burning off fuel to reach max landing weight first.

Jim

Last edited by BoeingBoy; Apr 22, 08 at 12:28 am
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Old Apr 22, 08, 9:09 am
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by BoeingBoy View Post
In the event of a problem necessitating a return for landing, it becomes an issue of which is more important - getting back on the ground as quickly as possible thus landing over max landing weight or burning off fuel to reach max landing weight first.

Jim

What is the risk of landing over max landing weight? Overshooting the runway, or damaging the plane in some other way?
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Old Apr 22, 08, 9:50 am
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Originally Posted by djk7 View Post
isn't one of the pilots also supposed to do a pre-flight inspection?
My guess is that the ramp failed to take out the gear pin after pushback.
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Old Apr 22, 08, 10:35 am
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Originally Posted by tommyleo View Post
What is the risk of landing over max landing weight? Overshooting the runway, or damaging the plane in some other way?
Usually it's just an inspection after an overweight landing, with the depth of the inspection determined by how overweight and the rate of descent at touchdown. In theory, if heavy enough and a high enough descent rate at touchdown, significant damage could result but that would be a worst case involving a very "hard" landing that would involve at least an inspection even with "normal" landing weights.

Jim
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Old Apr 22, 08, 11:06 am
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Originally Posted by BoeingBoy View Post
Usually it's just an inspection after an overweight landing, with the depth of the inspection determined by how overweight and the rate of descent at touchdown. In theory, if heavy enough and a high enough descent rate at touchdown, significant damage could result but that would be a worst case involving a very "hard" landing that would involve at least an inspection even with "normal" landing weights.

Jim
Ah. So it seems that the main concern is the impact at the moment of landing, rather than whether the plane can actually stop before running out of runway length.
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Old Apr 22, 08, 11:19 am
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Yes - normally the crew would request the longer/longest runway available (considering surface wind) if making an overweight landing so runway length would normally not be a problem. If it were, like DCA for example, there's the option of diverting to a different airport. In cases where time is of the essence, like an onboard fire, the least of the worries is the inspection for landing overweight.

Besides, any of the mainline narrowbodies will stop in 3-4,000 ft of runway if necessary, even at max take-off weight.

Jim
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Old Apr 22, 08, 11:29 am
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by dstan View Post
So, did you get extra miles for this routing?
Exact same thing happened to me on a UA flight ORD-PHX, captain came on and said the exact same words as this thread title. We returned to ORD, had a 4 hour delay until they found another a/c, and as way of apology UA gave me 17,500 miles. I was pleased with the outcome. Can't recall US ever doing anything that nice even when I was CP and flew the whole way from Europe to PHL in a broken Envoy seat that wouldn't recline (and had been reported by the previous flight crew but not fixed or blocked out).
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Old Apr 22, 08, 4:05 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by caspritz78 View Post
Be lucky your captain decided to return. Here in Europe we had one hero of a captain who decided to fly all the way from Turkey to Germany with the gear out. The trip ended with an emergency landing in Vienna because they ran out of fuel and had to glide.
Actually, they didn't quite make it to the airport but ditched in a field next to the runway. IIRC the captain got fired and lost his license. No fatalities though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/831061.stm
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Old Apr 22, 08, 5:19 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by NE flier View Post
Do tell the story of losing confirmed F seats. As someone considering moving more of my air miles to DL, I concerned. Was this a US problem of a DL problem?
This was totally a DL issue -- USAirways booked us in the F bucket but at the gate, 35 minutes prior to departure, we were told that there were no more F seats available. There wasn't time to argue there (we were 2 minutes from pushback), but I'm going to write DL a letter about this.
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Old Apr 22, 08, 5:23 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by cessnadriver View Post
I think I might have been on that airplane that morning. I'm pretty sure it operates ATL-CLT-ATL-PHX... I was on the ATL-CLT leg.
Probably not unless you flew the night before -- our departure was 7:55am from ATL-PHX, so I'm thinking this had to be the first flight of the day for the aircraft. The tail was N628AW.
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Old Apr 23, 08, 8:53 pm
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Originally Posted by coachrowsey View Post
My guess is that the ramp failed to take out the gear pin after pushback.
Your guess is incorrect. If the bypass pin had not been removed the pilots would not have been able to turn the nosewheel.
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