New US policy: No more 500 mile minimum per segment
Feb 15, 2008, 6:17 am
#226
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Programs: UA 2P, AA LT Gold, Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 3,159
Disagree with the new low comment, agree with the ingenuity. As a 1K, I get E+ for free, and can check two bags for free. Ma and Pa Kettle pay for the 2nd bag and E+ if they want it. UA knows how to treat their best customers with respect, AND extract additional revenue from their marginal customers. Unlike this POS airline which treats everyone like sh!t.
Feb 15, 2008, 6:30 am
#227
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: CLT
Programs: FT Member #8119 F & J Free Agent
Posts: 6,550
Disagree with the new low comment, agree with the ingenuity. As a 1K, I get E+ for free, and can check two bags for free. Ma and Pa Kettle pay for the 2nd bag and E+ if they want it. UA knows how to treat their best customers with respect, AND extract additional revenue from their marginal customers. Unlike this POS airline which treats everyone like sh!t.
Feb 15, 2008, 7:32 am
#228
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: usair, delta, northwest, AA, United
Posts: 1
USAir Mileage Changes
That makes perfect sense to me! USAir just invented the first new Airline Un-Frequent Flyer program. Congrats guys, my business is headed elsewhere...
Feb 15, 2008, 7:39 am
#229
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: US CP, *wood Gold, Marriott gold, Hilton something
Posts: 1,458
Its occurred to me, and I dont think this is an original thought here either, that perhaps US is trying to upset its elites. Just a theory...but if they announced tomorrow that they were clearing out all the elites and going to be a 100% low cost carrier (whatever that means) then it'd make the news in a big way.
But, if they make it just unpleasant enough that we all leave then the problem is solved and they can become another SouthWest.
Thats assuming the revenue elites generate is not as high as I have always thought and that the DM program is a burden (financially or otherwise) to US...
Mrs. SpaceBass is in charge of sourcing for a fortune 500 company here in RIC and plays quite a large role in determining the travel contracts and policies for her company. US is a major carrier for them and when I shared the email, her first reaction was, "Well there goes our adherence to the travel policy, no one will fly them anymore". So my point is, you don't have to be a road warrior to see that making bad decisions. Its not like someone in Tempe thought this was a great idea. They know what they are doing and what the reaction would be....its a calculated move on their part.
Just my little conspiracy theory ... I'll go back to wearing my tinfoil hat now
But, if they make it just unpleasant enough that we all leave then the problem is solved and they can become another SouthWest.
Thats assuming the revenue elites generate is not as high as I have always thought and that the DM program is a burden (financially or otherwise) to US...
Mrs. SpaceBass is in charge of sourcing for a fortune 500 company here in RIC and plays quite a large role in determining the travel contracts and policies for her company. US is a major carrier for them and when I shared the email, her first reaction was, "Well there goes our adherence to the travel policy, no one will fly them anymore". So my point is, you don't have to be a road warrior to see that making bad decisions. Its not like someone in Tempe thought this was a great idea. They know what they are doing and what the reaction would be....its a calculated move on their part.
Just my little conspiracy theory ... I'll go back to wearing my tinfoil hat now
Feb 15, 2008, 8:05 am
#230
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PHL/EWR
Programs: UA, AA
Posts: 1,821
Its occurred to me, and I dont think this is an original thought here either, that perhaps US is trying to upset its elites. Just a theory...but if they announced tomorrow that they were clearing out all the elites and going to be a 100% low cost carrier (whatever that means) then it'd make the news in a big way.
But, if they make it just unpleasant enough that we all leave then the problem is solved and they can become another SouthWest.
Thats assuming the revenue elites generate is not as high as I have always thought and that the DM program is a burden (financially or otherwise) to US...
Mrs. SpaceBass is in charge of sourcing for a fortune 500 company here in RIC and plays quite a large role in determining the travel contracts and policies for her company. US is a major carrier for them and when I shared the email, her first reaction was, "Well there goes our adherence to the travel policy, no one will fly them anymore". So my point is, you don't have to be a road warrior to see that making bad decisions. Its not like someone in Tempe thought this was a great idea. They know what they are doing and what the reaction would be....its a calculated move on their part.
Just my little conspiracy theory ... I'll go back to wearing my tinfoil hat now
But, if they make it just unpleasant enough that we all leave then the problem is solved and they can become another SouthWest.
Thats assuming the revenue elites generate is not as high as I have always thought and that the DM program is a burden (financially or otherwise) to US...
Mrs. SpaceBass is in charge of sourcing for a fortune 500 company here in RIC and plays quite a large role in determining the travel contracts and policies for her company. US is a major carrier for them and when I shared the email, her first reaction was, "Well there goes our adherence to the travel policy, no one will fly them anymore". So my point is, you don't have to be a road warrior to see that making bad decisions. Its not like someone in Tempe thought this was a great idea. They know what they are doing and what the reaction would be....its a calculated move on their part.
Just my little conspiracy theory ... I'll go back to wearing my tinfoil hat now
Last edited by PSU Mudder; Feb 15, 2008 at 8:17 am
Feb 15, 2008, 8:13 am
#231
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PHL/EWR
Programs: UA, AA
Posts: 1,821
Its occurred to me, and I dont think this is an original thought here either, that perhaps US is trying to upset its elites. Just a theory...but if they announced tomorrow that they were clearing out all the elites and going to be a 100% low cost carrier (whatever that means) then it'd make the news in a big way.
But, if they make it just unpleasant enough that we all leave then the problem is solved and they can become another SouthWest.
Thats assuming the revenue elites generate is not as high as I have always thought and that the DM program is a burden (financially or otherwise) to US...
Mrs. SpaceBass is in charge of sourcing for a fortune 500 company here in RIC and plays quite a large role in determining the travel contracts and policies for her company. US is a major carrier for them and when I shared the email, her first reaction was, "Well there goes our adherence to the travel policy, no one will fly them anymore". So my point is, you don't have to be a road warrior to see that making bad decisions. Its not like someone in Tempe thought this was a great idea. They know what they are doing and what the reaction would be....its a calculated move on their part.
Just my little conspiracy theory ... I'll go back to wearing my tinfoil hat now
But, if they make it just unpleasant enough that we all leave then the problem is solved and they can become another SouthWest.
Thats assuming the revenue elites generate is not as high as I have always thought and that the DM program is a burden (financially or otherwise) to US...
Mrs. SpaceBass is in charge of sourcing for a fortune 500 company here in RIC and plays quite a large role in determining the travel contracts and policies for her company. US is a major carrier for them and when I shared the email, her first reaction was, "Well there goes our adherence to the travel policy, no one will fly them anymore". So my point is, you don't have to be a road warrior to see that making bad decisions. Its not like someone in Tempe thought this was a great idea. They know what they are doing and what the reaction would be....its a calculated move on their part.
Just my little conspiracy theory ... I'll go back to wearing my tinfoil hat now
Feb 15, 2008, 8:49 am
#232
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,377
My twist on all of this is that US’ 4th quarter loss may become a 1st quarter one and they are floating trial balloons seeing what cost saving measures will stick and which ones they’ll be forced to retract. Their plan is to continue reducing domestic capacity, so some loss in FF’s is probably acceptable.
Feb 15, 2008, 10:34 am
#233
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Washington, DC (DCA)
Programs: UA, AA, AS, SPG.
Posts: 3,463
I got a reply from one of my emails.
Dear Mr. uva185:
Thank you for contacting US Airways regarding your concern with the change in our Dividend Miles program for short-haul flights. I understand your frustration with our airline, but please read the information below. I have forwarded your concerns to our Senior Management for their review.
From time to time, US Airways makes adjustments to the Dividend Miles program in order to continue to deliver benefits to its frequent flyer membership. By awarding the actual number of miles flown on flight 500 miles or less, US Airways is able to control costs and simplify its accrual policy, which helps to ensure the long-term viability of the Dividend Miles program. Most of our benefits, such as segment accrual and award mileage requirements, have not changed and we continue to attract more partners in our program to make it easier for you to earn miles.
Whether flying US Airways or any of our many partners, you can accrue your miles and get to an award ticket faster. In addition, unlike some competitor programs, by continuing to earn miles within the Dividend Miles program, you can keep your account active and avoid forfeiting your existing account balance. Flights longer than 500 miles are not affected by this program change.
US Airways feels confident we can continue to meet your travel needs. We operate approximately 3,700 flights per day and service more than 230 communities in the United States, Canada, Europe, the Caribbean and Latin America. US Airways is a member of the Star Alliance network where you can earn and redeem miles to nearly 900 destinations in 160 countries worldwide.
I hope the information provided will be helpful in understanding our decision to make the change. We look forward to providing a pleasant flight on your next flight with US Airways.
Sincerely,
Mary Ellen
US Airways Customer Relations
Corporate Office
Thank you for contacting US Airways regarding your concern with the change in our Dividend Miles program for short-haul flights. I understand your frustration with our airline, but please read the information below. I have forwarded your concerns to our Senior Management for their review.
From time to time, US Airways makes adjustments to the Dividend Miles program in order to continue to deliver benefits to its frequent flyer membership. By awarding the actual number of miles flown on flight 500 miles or less, US Airways is able to control costs and simplify its accrual policy, which helps to ensure the long-term viability of the Dividend Miles program. Most of our benefits, such as segment accrual and award mileage requirements, have not changed and we continue to attract more partners in our program to make it easier for you to earn miles.
Whether flying US Airways or any of our many partners, you can accrue your miles and get to an award ticket faster. In addition, unlike some competitor programs, by continuing to earn miles within the Dividend Miles program, you can keep your account active and avoid forfeiting your existing account balance. Flights longer than 500 miles are not affected by this program change.
US Airways feels confident we can continue to meet your travel needs. We operate approximately 3,700 flights per day and service more than 230 communities in the United States, Canada, Europe, the Caribbean and Latin America. US Airways is a member of the Star Alliance network where you can earn and redeem miles to nearly 900 destinations in 160 countries worldwide.
I hope the information provided will be helpful in understanding our decision to make the change. We look forward to providing a pleasant flight on your next flight with US Airways.
Sincerely,
Mary Ellen
US Airways Customer Relations
Corporate Office
Feb 15, 2008, 11:19 am
#234
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: MKE
Programs: AA Exec Platinum, SPG Platinum / Ambassador / Lifetime Gold, Avis FIRST
Posts: 3,293
Mr. Jumpgate,
Thank you for contacting US Airways.
We can understand your concerns about the changes in our mileage accrual
for short haul flights. We periodically review our program and make
changes to offset rising airline expenses and to continue to deliver the
best benefits to our Dividend Miles members, By awarding the actual
number of miles flown, US Airways will reduce costs and simplify its
accrual policy to help ensure the long-term viability of the Dividend
Miles program.
As you know, all frequent flyer programs face the problem of what to do
with the abundance of miles that have been issued over the years. In
attempting to control their mileage liability, carriers make choices
about whether to reign in mileage earning, or to seek to control the
redemption of miles, i.e. make it harder for customers to find award
seats.
US Airways is committed to making responsible choices in order to ensure
that the Dividend Miles program can continue to deliver benefits in the
future. We believe that constraining future mileage accrual is a more
transparent approach to dealing with program-related expense than simply
making it harder for customers to redeem.
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts about our program
changes. Your business is important to us and we feel confident that US
Airways can meet your future travel needs.
Communications McMajor
Dividend Miles
Thank you for contacting US Airways.
We can understand your concerns about the changes in our mileage accrual
for short haul flights. We periodically review our program and make
changes to offset rising airline expenses and to continue to deliver the
best benefits to our Dividend Miles members, By awarding the actual
number of miles flown, US Airways will reduce costs and simplify its
accrual policy to help ensure the long-term viability of the Dividend
Miles program.
As you know, all frequent flyer programs face the problem of what to do
with the abundance of miles that have been issued over the years. In
attempting to control their mileage liability, carriers make choices
about whether to reign in mileage earning, or to seek to control the
redemption of miles, i.e. make it harder for customers to find award
seats.
US Airways is committed to making responsible choices in order to ensure
that the Dividend Miles program can continue to deliver benefits in the
future. We believe that constraining future mileage accrual is a more
transparent approach to dealing with program-related expense than simply
making it harder for customers to redeem.
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts about our program
changes. Your business is important to us and we feel confident that US
Airways can meet your future travel needs.
Communications McMajor
Dividend Miles
Feb 15, 2008, 11:51 am
#235
Join Date: May 2005
Location: DCA
Programs: AA EXP, former US1; IHG Spire Ambassador; AVIS First
Posts: 364
Feb 15, 2008, 12:07 pm
#236
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Commuting around the mid-atlantic and rust-belt on any number of RJs
Programs: TSA Random Selectee Platinum, * Gold, SPG/HH/MR mid-tier, and a tiny bag of pretzels.
Posts: 9,255
Even the canned response is nonsensical. Does Team Tempe really think someone savvy enough to write in about this is going to be satisfied with that steaming pile of corporate-communications crap they are sending out?
I hope US is not trying to lower itself into the "real" world of LCCs. The product, particularly in coach, does not compare favorably to B6, WN, or F9. For short haul flyers, WN's Rapid Rewards now crushes DM. See the math above--it can be twice (if not more) as lucrative in real-world awards for short haul flyers.
I hope US is not trying to lower itself into the "real" world of LCCs. The product, particularly in coach, does not compare favorably to B6, WN, or F9. For short haul flyers, WN's Rapid Rewards now crushes DM. See the math above--it can be twice (if not more) as lucrative in real-world awards for short haul flyers.
Feb 15, 2008, 12:25 pm
#237
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Doylestown, PA, USA
Programs: UA Platinum Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 549
I know it's not huge in the scheme of things
But I assume the entire weekly commuter base out of ABE will either not pay their $1 per mile extra to come out of ABE and drive to PHL--
Or just drive over to EWR where the airline respects you.
Either way it's a loss for US, no?
People forget that PHL flyers have a lot of local regional choices within a 1 hour drive-- this isn't the west where you have to drive 6 hours to the next airport.
Or just drive over to EWR where the airline respects you.
Either way it's a loss for US, no?
People forget that PHL flyers have a lot of local regional choices within a 1 hour drive-- this isn't the west where you have to drive 6 hours to the next airport.
Feb 15, 2008, 12:37 pm
#238
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: BOS
Programs: JetBlue Mosaic, WN A List Preferred, Hyatt Globalest, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, IHG Spire
Posts: 3,966
Maybe the issue as noted is they really don't want to have to deal with elites. After all, an elite may be your most savvy and in some cases perhaps demanding customer. It may be harder to satisfy an elite as opposed to satisfying someone who flys whatever airline is cheapest once evry 2 years. An elite has higher expectations in general than the person that flys once evry 2 years. But of course they couldn't easily put out a press release saying that they are really in the race to the bottom and aren't really going to be a premium airline. So they just keep dumbing down the product and program and after a while maybe a lot of the elites will leave, especially the elites that want something from an airline besides just getting from A to B...those more demanding elites who want more things will leave, and the easy to please push over elites if you will will stay.
There was some chatter recently in UA invester materials that a surprisingly high revenue number comes from people that don't even participate in Mileage Plus at all. They just fly and don't earn miles.
Remember for most people, they are not that "in to" flying, the flight experience, the FF program, etc. Its probably viewed as a necesary evil. For instance I was in a focus group with some "typical" "business people." They were asking if there was absolutely anything that US could do to get these people to be more loyal to the US Shuttle. Bonus miles, discounts, anything?! But the average pax spoke, and said basically when they arrive at LGA in their taxi or car, depending on the time of the hour, they head over to US or DL and they don't have any particular loyalty, feelings, appreciaition, etc. about one or the other. Almost completely viewed as a comodity. I guess the question is how many people in the real world are like that, barely even having a 2nd graders understanding of the minutia of frequent flyer programs etc. Pay attention at the gate, counter, club, or with your seat mate, and test the pax knowledge. I bet they really have a barely elementary level understanding of anything airline.
Of course on FT the pax profile is different, because in some respects by virtue of being here, this is a hobbey, interest, etc. But how closely does FT mirror the real world?
Like if US Airways announced it was completely cancelling and voiding and 100% elliminating the DM program as of 3/1/2008, outside of niches like FT, would your average person really care? Probably a contingent of people would still fly US because they have nonstops out of PHL and CLT etc. and the schedule works. I am not sure in my office where the full time people don't travel if anyone would even mention it at the water cooler. Outside of FT, only one friend has mentioned this. And he agreed it was very petty of US, and half jokingly said why don't they just gut the DM program and elliminate it. I think in the t&c it says they can elliminate it. I would respect the management more if they just elliminated it rather than keep watering it down. And its insulting that they put these changes in positive euphimisms. They should just announce that they are making an unpopular negative change that pax will not welcome or enjoy, and one which will probably cause some pax to leave the carrier. At least they would have some integrity if they told it like it is.
It would be like telling elementary school age kids that recess is being elliminated and that that is an enhancement they will like and enjoy.
I've already left anyway so this is largely academic for me.
There was some chatter recently in UA invester materials that a surprisingly high revenue number comes from people that don't even participate in Mileage Plus at all. They just fly and don't earn miles.
Remember for most people, they are not that "in to" flying, the flight experience, the FF program, etc. Its probably viewed as a necesary evil. For instance I was in a focus group with some "typical" "business people." They were asking if there was absolutely anything that US could do to get these people to be more loyal to the US Shuttle. Bonus miles, discounts, anything?! But the average pax spoke, and said basically when they arrive at LGA in their taxi or car, depending on the time of the hour, they head over to US or DL and they don't have any particular loyalty, feelings, appreciaition, etc. about one or the other. Almost completely viewed as a comodity. I guess the question is how many people in the real world are like that, barely even having a 2nd graders understanding of the minutia of frequent flyer programs etc. Pay attention at the gate, counter, club, or with your seat mate, and test the pax knowledge. I bet they really have a barely elementary level understanding of anything airline.
Of course on FT the pax profile is different, because in some respects by virtue of being here, this is a hobbey, interest, etc. But how closely does FT mirror the real world?
Like if US Airways announced it was completely cancelling and voiding and 100% elliminating the DM program as of 3/1/2008, outside of niches like FT, would your average person really care? Probably a contingent of people would still fly US because they have nonstops out of PHL and CLT etc. and the schedule works. I am not sure in my office where the full time people don't travel if anyone would even mention it at the water cooler. Outside of FT, only one friend has mentioned this. And he agreed it was very petty of US, and half jokingly said why don't they just gut the DM program and elliminate it. I think in the t&c it says they can elliminate it. I would respect the management more if they just elliminated it rather than keep watering it down. And its insulting that they put these changes in positive euphimisms. They should just announce that they are making an unpopular negative change that pax will not welcome or enjoy, and one which will probably cause some pax to leave the carrier. At least they would have some integrity if they told it like it is.
It would be like telling elementary school age kids that recess is being elliminated and that that is an enhancement they will like and enjoy.
I've already left anyway so this is largely academic for me.
Feb 15, 2008, 12:51 pm
#239
Moderator: New York City and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2007
Programs: AA PLT, Natl EC
Posts: 10,855
I received the identical response as everyone else, ironically from the same person (although the name should technically be redacted herein). My response:
Dear Ms. <redacted>:
Thank you for sending me this form letter response, which I see is identical to that received by others who have expressed my concerns. I will take this as a further indication that US Airways does not, in fact, value my business and, accordingly, will be taking my business elsewhere, as noted in my original letter. I would also mention that, per my original letter, your statement that award mileage requirements have not changed is clearly inaccurate with respect to upgrades.
Regards,
dstan
Thank you for sending me this form letter response, which I see is identical to that received by others who have expressed my concerns. I will take this as a further indication that US Airways does not, in fact, value my business and, accordingly, will be taking my business elsewhere, as noted in my original letter. I would also mention that, per my original letter, your statement that award mileage requirements have not changed is clearly inaccurate with respect to upgrades.
Regards,
dstan
Feb 15, 2008, 1:00 pm
#240
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: UA 1K 1MMer & LT UC (when flying UA); Hyatt Credit Cardist; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold via UA 1K
Posts: 6,956