What do you call this... (IDB and compensation issues)
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: IAD / DCA / BWI
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Posts: 264
What do you call this when it happens and how does something like this even happen?
Last Saturday (3/28), my family of 4 had the following scheduled itinerary:
1) VPS to CLT flight 5156 11:24 AM to 2:00 PM
2) CLT to BWI flight 2063 2:50 PM to 4:15 PM
Here's what happened next and where I need some guidance:
Here's where I need some guidance:
Questions are welcome. I haven't filed my complaint to US Airways yet as I wanted to check with the FT community first to see if I have a leg to stand on in asking for IDB compensation.
1) VPS to CLT flight 5156 11:24 AM to 2:00 PM
2) CLT to BWI flight 2063 2:50 PM to 4:15 PM
Here's what happened next and where I need some guidance:
- We took off from VPS late because the pilot forgot his ID and could not get through security so he had to go back to the hotel.
- We landed in CLT at 2:20 PM (20 mins late)
- We got to our CLT to BWI gate at 2:35 PM (they closed the jet bridge door at 2:57 PM so they had time to sort everything out if they wanted to)
- The gate agent said that someone at corporate rescheduled our 2nd leg because they did not think we were going to make our connection and he could not board us.
- The gate agent wanted us to take the rescheduled CLT to DCA flight and weren't going to board us but I raised a stink so they took my wife and one child on CLT to BWI.
- Apparently, there was a CLT to BWI flight that was cancelled earlier in the day so they boarded standbys and gave away our seats because they thought we were going to be late for our connection
- My other child and I ended up on a flight from CLT to DCA a couple hours later.
- When I asked whether I qualified for IDB, the gate agent claimed that this was not IDB since someone at corporate changed my flight and rebooked us on another flight so I wasn't due any compensation.
Here's where I need some guidance:
- If a pilot causes a delay due to his own negligence (forgot his ID) and makes me late for my connecting flight, isn't that something US Airways should take ownership of since it was under their control, as opposed to weather, mechanical, etc?
- Given that I got our family to our connecting flight in time to board, shouldn't the gate agent have boarded us before other stand by passengers since we had confirmed seats for the flight? I had to argue just to get my wife and my daughter on the flight and the gate agents would not take 2 others off the flight to seat me and my other daughter.
- Can US Airways just rebook you on a different flight because someone at corporate (a machine or algorithm I suppose) *thinks* that you are not going to make your connection? So what do you do when you *do* make your connection like I did?
- If US Airways can just auto rebook you on a different flight, shouldn't they book you on the next flight to your original designation (BWI) as opposed to an airport that is 35 miles away (DCA)? My car was at BWI.
- What is the standard term or definition when something like this happens?
- The gate agent said that they could not provide any vouchers for an incident like this because corporate took away all of their ability to compensate passengers - is this true?
- Do I have a legitimate case to seek denied boarding compensation? I am US Airways Silver if it matters any.
Questions are welcome. I haven't filed my complaint to US Airways yet as I wanted to check with the FT community first to see if I have a leg to stand on in asking for IDB compensation.
Last edited by JDiver; Apr 22, 2015 at 6:16 am Reason: Restore original thread title
#2
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: US
Programs: AAdvantage
Posts: 1,753
1. Yes. It sounds like US Airways took responsibility by automatically rebooking you onto the CLT-DCA flight, which unfortunately...
2. ...meant that you no longer had confirmed seats on the original CLT-BWI flight. The gate agent cleared standbys because as far as they were concerned, your party was no longer on the flight.
3. Yes. It's supposed to make the rebooking process easier by having it happen automatically, therefore cutting down on lines and wait times because all passengers would need to do is check in for their new flight. Of course, as you discovered, the algorithm is far from perfect.
4. There may not have been availability on a flight to BWI within a suitable timeframe, or possibly their rebooking algorithm assumes BWI-bound passengers would accept any Washington-area airport.
5. I don't think there is one, at least an official non-vulgar one.
6. I'm not familiar with US Airways policies, but I do recall being shocked that they didn't offer meal vouchers in circumstances when AA happily would, so I would not be entirely surprised if agents no longer had the ability to issue compensation vouchers.
7. I don't believe so. You were no longer confirmed on the original CLT-BWI flight. You were not involuntarily denied boarding due to an overbooking situation if they were able to clear standbys. You should contact US Airways to see if they will provide miles or a voucher in return.
2. ...meant that you no longer had confirmed seats on the original CLT-BWI flight. The gate agent cleared standbys because as far as they were concerned, your party was no longer on the flight.
3. Yes. It's supposed to make the rebooking process easier by having it happen automatically, therefore cutting down on lines and wait times because all passengers would need to do is check in for their new flight. Of course, as you discovered, the algorithm is far from perfect.
4. There may not have been availability on a flight to BWI within a suitable timeframe, or possibly their rebooking algorithm assumes BWI-bound passengers would accept any Washington-area airport.
5. I don't think there is one, at least an official non-vulgar one.
6. I'm not familiar with US Airways policies, but I do recall being shocked that they didn't offer meal vouchers in circumstances when AA happily would, so I would not be entirely surprised if agents no longer had the ability to issue compensation vouchers.
7. I don't believe so. You were no longer confirmed on the original CLT-BWI flight. You were not involuntarily denied boarding due to an overbooking situation if they were able to clear standbys. You should contact US Airways to see if they will provide miles or a voucher in return.
#3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: PHL
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Write a simple, un-embellished letter saying that because the original flight was late for non-weather-related issues (late crew member, had to retrieve wallet at hotel), your family was split and re-booked on two later flights, including one to DCA instead of BWI. Provide a sober dollar figure for the cost of getting from DCA back home (or back to BWI, or wherever). Plus any other legitimate expenses. Time and aggravation are not legitimate expenses.
In the best of all worlds you get these expenses reimbursed plus perhaps a voucher (I'd guess $75, but that's just a guess.)
In the best of all worlds you get these expenses reimbursed plus perhaps a voucher (I'd guess $75, but that's just a guess.)
#4
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Washington DC
Programs: AA Plat
Posts: 1,304
7. I don't believe so. You were no longer confirmed on the original CLT-BWI flight. You were not involuntarily denied boarding due to an overbooking situation if they were able to clear standbys. You should contact US Airways to see if they will provide miles or a voucher in return.
US's published standard domestic to domestic minimum connecting time in CLT is 40 minutes. Once your flight delay causes you to violate the MCT, the computer will 'rightly' flag your reservation as having an 'Invalid Connection' (which is the term I think the OP is looking for) and seek to re-book you.
I think the fact that this connection went invalid, even though it turned out to be physically possible to make it, insulates US from the IDB rules.
#5
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
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Posts: 8,745
This was a flight delay resulting in a missed connection. It was not an IDB.
From the sound of it, two members of the party had no delay and the other two had a "couple of hours" delay and were routed into DCA instead of BWI.
Yes, the airline is responsible, so the question becomes, "What are you entitled to for a couple of hours delay on a domestic itinerary?"
Under the US Airways Contract of Carriage, Chapter 9, you are not entitled to any compensation for the delay. Under Section 09-05, you would appear to be entitled to the reasonable cost of ground transportation from DCA to BWI; however, they can make the argument that you needed to arrange that through US prior to taking it upon yourself to travel between DCA and BWI.
Since this was not an involuntary overnight delay, that is all they are obligated to provide.
Note that I am not defending the policies, but am setting forth what the parameters are.
What would I ask for? The reasonable costs of ground transportation that you incurred between DCA and IAD. If you wife came to pick you up, I would ask for the mileage at the IRS rate (57.5-cents per mile) that the car was operated in addition to what it would have been driven anyway in order for them to pick you up.
I would also ask for unspecified compensation for the delay and reroute, but note they are not required to give you anything.
From the sound of it, two members of the party had no delay and the other two had a "couple of hours" delay and were routed into DCA instead of BWI.
Yes, the airline is responsible, so the question becomes, "What are you entitled to for a couple of hours delay on a domestic itinerary?"
Under the US Airways Contract of Carriage, Chapter 9, you are not entitled to any compensation for the delay. Under Section 09-05, you would appear to be entitled to the reasonable cost of ground transportation from DCA to BWI; however, they can make the argument that you needed to arrange that through US prior to taking it upon yourself to travel between DCA and BWI.
Since this was not an involuntary overnight delay, that is all they are obligated to provide.
Note that I am not defending the policies, but am setting forth what the parameters are.
What would I ask for? The reasonable costs of ground transportation that you incurred between DCA and IAD. If you wife came to pick you up, I would ask for the mileage at the IRS rate (57.5-cents per mile) that the car was operated in addition to what it would have been driven anyway in order for them to pick you up.
I would also ask for unspecified compensation for the delay and reroute, but note they are not required to give you anything.
#6
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
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Posts: 50,262
Be careful how you frame your request. If you assert that this is IDB, off it goes to the compliance people who will determine that it was not IDB and deny your claim and be done with it. IDB only occurs under US law when boarding is denied due to an oversold flight.
Here, your family's delay was due to something within US' control and you were route to DCA rather than BWI. You are therefore due transportation to your destination of BWI. US should have issued a cab voucher on request, but will likely do something similar by way of a voucher even though you did not ask for the arrangements.
In addition, although no further compensation is due, US might award some customer service gesture.
I would suggest a no more than 3-4 short declarative sentence note which sticks to the reason for the delay and the fact that the delay caused you to misconnect and be routed to other than your destination.
Here, your family's delay was due to something within US' control and you were route to DCA rather than BWI. You are therefore due transportation to your destination of BWI. US should have issued a cab voucher on request, but will likely do something similar by way of a voucher even though you did not ask for the arrangements.
In addition, although no further compensation is due, US might award some customer service gesture.
I would suggest a no more than 3-4 short declarative sentence note which sticks to the reason for the delay and the fact that the delay caused you to misconnect and be routed to other than your destination.
#7
Join Date: May 2014
Programs: AA Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 245
I agree that this is not an IDB situation, but for a different reason.
US's published standard domestic to domestic minimum connecting time in CLT is 40 minutes. Once your flight delay causes you to violate the MCT, the computer will 'rightly' flag your reservation as having an 'Invalid Connection' (which is the term I think the OP is looking for) and seek to re-book you.
I think the fact that this connection went invalid, even though it turned out to be physically possible to make it, insulates US from the IDB rules.
US's published standard domestic to domestic minimum connecting time in CLT is 40 minutes. Once your flight delay causes you to violate the MCT, the computer will 'rightly' flag your reservation as having an 'Invalid Connection' (which is the term I think the OP is looking for) and seek to re-book you.
I think the fact that this connection went invalid, even though it turned out to be physically possible to make it, insulates US from the IDB rules.
The OP first needs to find out if their reservation was really modified proactively by the computer or if the GA at the second flight did this. A simple call to US Reservations with a request to look at the PNR and explain what happened should clear this up.
#8
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: LAX
Programs: Thai Gold, UA, AA, SWA
Posts: 362
I am amazed at what some flyers have this give me, give me attitude. All that happened to the OP was a 2 hr delay in reaching his destination. The pilot did not intentionally leave his ID at home. Things happen. If it was a weather or other related issue the same thing would probably happen.
The only thing that OP should be compensated for is the inconvenience of retrieving his car 35 miles away.
Having said that I have to give United some kudos for a thing they did a few years back. My daughter's flight was delayed going from Houston to La Guardia. Being late they had to land at EWR. Not only did United pick up the tab for the taxi (about $90) they refunded the entire fare. Mindyou, she did not rant and rave and took it as sometimes things happen beyond control. United's gesture was out of the blue.
So OP, if you really want compensation beyond your actual damage, go ahead.
The only thing that OP should be compensated for is the inconvenience of retrieving his car 35 miles away.
Having said that I have to give United some kudos for a thing they did a few years back. My daughter's flight was delayed going from Houston to La Guardia. Being late they had to land at EWR. Not only did United pick up the tab for the taxi (about $90) they refunded the entire fare. Mindyou, she did not rant and rave and took it as sometimes things happen beyond control. United's gesture was out of the blue.
So OP, if you really want compensation beyond your actual damage, go ahead.
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,643
I'm even more surprised when a traveler comes to FT with a request for help regarding a situation that is clearly on the airlines, gives us what appears to be the entire story and gets attacked by a poster. But that's just me.
OP, the other posts are correct. Technically, you are not entitled to anything other than ground transportation between the airports. It's not IDB, since they didn't oversell the plane. What happened at CLT was an unfortunate consequence of what's normally a pretty useful rebooking system.
It sounds like you two people in your family were delayed 2.5-3 hrs (including drive time) based on a preventable error on the airline's fault (or one of their employees, in this case). I think you deserve reimbursement of reasonable incidental expenses plus a voucher in the $100-200 range per person. My guess is that $100 is where it will end up.
You should write your letter in a manner similar to what you wrote on FT. Indicate what happened and what you expect. Keep it brief and leave out the part about IDB.
Mike
OP, the other posts are correct. Technically, you are not entitled to anything other than ground transportation between the airports. It's not IDB, since they didn't oversell the plane. What happened at CLT was an unfortunate consequence of what's normally a pretty useful rebooking system.
It sounds like you two people in your family were delayed 2.5-3 hrs (including drive time) based on a preventable error on the airline's fault (or one of their employees, in this case). I think you deserve reimbursement of reasonable incidental expenses plus a voucher in the $100-200 range per person. My guess is that $100 is where it will end up.
You should write your letter in a manner similar to what you wrote on FT. Indicate what happened and what you expect. Keep it brief and leave out the part about IDB.
Mike
#10
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sun Prairie, WI
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, HH Diamond, National Executive
Posts: 1,786
I am amazed at what some flyers have this give me, give me attitude. All that happened to the OP was a 2 hr delay in reaching his destination. The pilot did not intentionally leave his ID at home. Things happen. If it was a weather or other related issue the same thing would probably happen.
The only thing that OP should be compensated for is the inconvenience of retrieving his car 35 miles away.
Having said that I have to give United some kudos for a thing they did a few years back. My daughter's flight was delayed going from Houston to La Guardia. Being late they had to land at EWR. Not only did United pick up the tab for the taxi (about $90) they refunded the entire fare. Mindyou, she did not rant and rave and took it as sometimes things happen beyond control. United's gesture was out of the blue.
So OP, if you really want compensation beyond your actual damage, go ahead.
The only thing that OP should be compensated for is the inconvenience of retrieving his car 35 miles away.
Having said that I have to give United some kudos for a thing they did a few years back. My daughter's flight was delayed going from Houston to La Guardia. Being late they had to land at EWR. Not only did United pick up the tab for the taxi (about $90) they refunded the entire fare. Mindyou, she did not rant and rave and took it as sometimes things happen beyond control. United's gesture was out of the blue.
So OP, if you really want compensation beyond your actual damage, go ahead.
OP - All the above information is pretty accurate. Be concise and stick to facts and I'm sure you will get something for your troubles. Keep us updated on how it goes.
#11
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Definitely a tough call. But you have to ask? You will never know if you qualify for any compensation, if you don't ask.
#12
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: TUS, SEA, OTP, OMR
Posts: 868
I strongly agree that I would take a normal customer service route with US.
However I don't see how this can possibly be anything other than IDB. You met the key "features" of IDB:
1) You had a confirmed reservation on a specific flight.
2) You showed up at the gate for your flight consistent with the airlines boarding policies and without any other extenuating circumstances (drunk, missing passport, etc).
3) They denied you boarding.
QED: IDB.
If US fails to compensate you, I would absolutely file a complaint with the DOT. If the airlines could get out of IDB by proactively rebooking you, what's to stop them from just rebooking all the oversells for a flight next week?
However I don't see how this can possibly be anything other than IDB. You met the key "features" of IDB:
1) You had a confirmed reservation on a specific flight.
2) You showed up at the gate for your flight consistent with the airlines boarding policies and without any other extenuating circumstances (drunk, missing passport, etc).
3) They denied you boarding.
QED: IDB.
If US fails to compensate you, I would absolutely file a complaint with the DOT. If the airlines could get out of IDB by proactively rebooking you, what's to stop them from just rebooking all the oversells for a flight next week?
#13
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: TUS, SEA, OTP, OMR
Posts: 868
Furthermore, as it was IDB, the airline was responsible for your care an assistance (read meal vouchers) during the re-route.
#14
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
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I strongly agree that I would take a normal customer service route with US.
However I don't see how this can possibly be anything other than IDB. You met the key "features" of IDB:
1) You had a confirmed reservation on a specific flight.
2) You showed up at the gate for your flight consistent with the airlines boarding policies and without any other extenuating circumstances (drunk, missing passport, etc).
3) They denied you boarding.
QED: IDB.
If US fails to compensate you, I would absolutely file a complaint with the DOT. If the airlines could get out of IDB by proactively rebooking you, what's to stop them from just rebooking all the oversells for a flight next week?
However I don't see how this can possibly be anything other than IDB. You met the key "features" of IDB:
1) You had a confirmed reservation on a specific flight.
2) You showed up at the gate for your flight consistent with the airlines boarding policies and without any other extenuating circumstances (drunk, missing passport, etc).
3) They denied you boarding.
QED: IDB.
If US fails to compensate you, I would absolutely file a complaint with the DOT. If the airlines could get out of IDB by proactively rebooking you, what's to stop them from just rebooking all the oversells for a flight next week?
http://www.usairways.com/en-US/trave...ckintimes.html
If you are not checked in and waiting in the boarding area at least 15 minutes before the scheduled departure time for domestic U.S. (30 minutes for international travel), your reservation may be canceled and you will not be eligible for denied boarding compensation.
If their watch is off from US's by a minute... nope, sorry, not IDB. And running through the terminal to show up at the counter isn't the same as "waiting in the boarding area", is it?
(Note that it's "scheduled departure", the 2:57 departure is irrelevant.)
I wouldn't push it as IDB unless I had things like timestamped pictures of clocks at the gate...
#15
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 353
Most likely not corporate, but computer system rebooked them. Had similar issue with American, they took the tickets back from the standby pax. (They were also rerouting one kid by self to different hub.) Southwest thought misconnect, but did not misconnect, denied boarding as seats given away, wrote in and investigation determined IDB. Would ask nicely for vouchers for all four, but if they are unable to do this, then you would like them to investigate IDB for the two of you. Southwest said that we made the connection well in advance as the time the plane actually leaves is the new time for determining when the pax need to be at the gate. Would emphasize earlier events in the day with airline needing seats, thus your denied boarding.