View Poll Results: Is an American Airlines/US Airways merger good for the traveling public?
Yes
84
28.19%
No
214
71.81%
Voters: 298. You may not vote on this poll
Nov 12, 2013, 2:24 pm
Last edit by: aztimm
Note:
There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread
As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.
Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread
As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.
Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
US/AA merger- MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD/incl 'when will US leave STAR'
Aug 13, 2013, 4:42 pm
#1306
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Usually in SAN or Central Europe.
Programs: AA:EXP/1MM. Accor/Radisson:Silver; HH:Gold; ICH:Plt Amb.
Posts: 22,307
Maybe on the UA side, but I doubt it is that high with DL. In fact, I like the post merger DL quite a lot. It's their FFP program that sucks. But their product is much better than what UA is delivering to passengers. And people look at this merger with a "what can you do for me right now" attitude. However, the long term prospects for US right now don't look great. They have union contracts that can't be postponed forever. Their operating costs are going to rise. Where is the company going to get that added revenue to offset those costs? Reducing F cabins in order to put in more Y seats? We all know that they really aren't selling that many F seats in the first place. It's international growth potential is getting close to its maximum. Particularly with no JV/ATI agreements.
Aug 13, 2013, 4:56 pm
#1307
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: PHL
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AA Gold, FB Gold, ITA Volare Executive
Posts: 3,294
Is this the place to say if we're happy? I'm happy!
The fact that most of us at US felt like we would lose under the merger, and did not like the AA system; and the fact that there are clearly AA folks who felt that they would lose, too, and did not like the US system .... well, that's what happens when the market is full of consumers with different preferences. In such circumstances -- which are near universal! -- it's hard to figure out how a reduction in competition would raise general welfare. It's easy to see how it might raise the well-being of the folks running the cartel.
I'm happy. Did I say that already ...?
The fact that most of us at US felt like we would lose under the merger, and did not like the AA system; and the fact that there are clearly AA folks who felt that they would lose, too, and did not like the US system .... well, that's what happens when the market is full of consumers with different preferences. In such circumstances -- which are near universal! -- it's hard to figure out how a reduction in competition would raise general welfare. It's easy to see how it might raise the well-being of the folks running the cartel.
I'm happy. Did I say that already ...?
Aug 13, 2013, 4:56 pm
#1308
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,816
Some of the snippets from the complaint are eye opening. Not the least of which is:
"US Airways also plans to institute its fees ($40 on average) for the redemption
of frequent flyer tickets on American’s existing frequent fliers, who currently are not charged for mileage redemption."
LOL....
"US Airways also plans to institute its fees ($40 on average) for the redemption
of frequent flyer tickets on American’s existing frequent fliers, who currently are not charged for mileage redemption."
LOL....
Aug 13, 2013, 5:08 pm
#1309
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Usually in SAN or Central Europe.
Programs: AA:EXP/1MM. Accor/Radisson:Silver; HH:Gold; ICH:Plt Amb.
Posts: 22,307
Some of the snippets from the complaint are eye opening. Not the least of which is:
"US Airways also plans to institute its fees ($40 on average) for the redemption
of frequent flyer tickets on American’s existing frequent fliers, who currently are not charged for mileage redemption."
LOL....
"US Airways also plans to institute its fees ($40 on average) for the redemption
of frequent flyer tickets on American’s existing frequent fliers, who currently are not charged for mileage redemption."
LOL....
Aug 13, 2013, 5:10 pm
#1310
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,816
Its completely relevant. The airline touts customer benefits, increased access, etc. Imposing a continuous stream of ancillary fees is anything but.
In any event, that is but one measure.
The HHI analysis is the real gorilla in this one. Followed by perceived belief in the loss in Advantage fares.
In any event, that is but one measure.
The HHI analysis is the real gorilla in this one. Followed by perceived belief in the loss in Advantage fares.
Aug 13, 2013, 5:13 pm
#1311
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: DFW
Programs: US Chairman's Preferred, FL A+ Elite, SPG Platinum,
Posts: 25
(Unfortunately, I'm sitting in a hotel room without DVR functionality, and I couldn't capture the specific figures that they referenced.)
Aug 13, 2013, 5:18 pm
#1312
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Usually in SAN or Central Europe.
Programs: AA:EXP/1MM. Accor/Radisson:Silver; HH:Gold; ICH:Plt Amb.
Posts: 22,307
Its completely relevant. The airline touts customer benefits, increased access, etc. Imposing a continuous stream of ancillary fees is anything but.
In any event, that is but one measure.
The HHI analysis is the real gorilla in this one. Followed by perceived belief in the loss in Advantage fares.
In any event, that is but one measure.
The HHI analysis is the real gorilla in this one. Followed by perceived belief in the loss in Advantage fares.
Aug 13, 2013, 5:21 pm
#1313
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
Can't speak for DL customers, but lots of UA FTers certainly have been disappointed.
Aug 13, 2013, 5:22 pm
#1314
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,816
No. Airlines sell airline tickets to transport people from one point to another. The FF programs have nothing to do with that. A contract of carriage doesn't even deal with FF benefits. An airline doesn't even have to have a FF program to operate as an airline. So how an airline operates and manages its FF program should be of no concern to the DOJ.
Aug 13, 2013, 5:33 pm
#1315
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: DFW
Programs: AA 1M
Posts: 31,475
Most excellent news this evening time. Finally something to cheer about regarding the merger. There has been way too many mergers.
Aug 13, 2013, 5:48 pm
#1316
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,955
As a US elite, a lot of the points made in this thread have slowly swung me to the side that is now very happy that this merger may fall through.
The investor side of me is kind of pissed off that he laddered some Aug 13 LCC calls.
The investor side of me is kind of pissed off that he laddered some Aug 13 LCC calls.
Aug 13, 2013, 5:49 pm
#1317
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,955
FFFFF good thing I liquidated my AAMRQ position at 6.65.
Did I mention I was pretty sure this thing was happening?
Did I mention I was pretty sure this thing was happening?
Aug 13, 2013, 5:49 pm
#1318
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BOS
Programs: Marriott LTG, HHonors Diamond, Nat'l Exec
Posts: 3,581
My point was that DOJ's analysis of city pairs is simplistic and seems hastily slapped together.
Aug 13, 2013, 5:57 pm
#1319
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AA EXP; 1W Emerald; HHonors Diamond; Marriott Gold; UA dirt
Posts: 7,816
That's how DOJ has always measured competition levels. I think they actually spent a lot of time on this. Look at all the internal email correspondence they aired out publicly.
Remember when US tried to merge with UA back around 2000/2001. Same analysis. And back then, US was ready to give DCA away. Remember Robert Johnson and "DCAir"?
Remember when US tried to merge with UA back around 2000/2001. Same analysis. And back then, US was ready to give DCA away. Remember Robert Johnson and "DCAir"?
Aug 13, 2013, 6:14 pm
#1320
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 25,933
don't forget all the states that are joining in on DOJ's side
I don't see how this can be just about DCA. It's not just DOJ in it. It's joined by a bunch of states, and while Virginia might have joined because of DCA concerns, I don't see why that would be the reason (or even necessarily a reason) why some of the states far away have joined the lawsuit.