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US/AA merger- MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD/incl 'when will US leave STAR'

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US/AA merger- MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD/incl 'when will US leave STAR'

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Old Dec 8, 13, 9:45 am   -   Wikipost
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Note:

There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread

As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.

Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)

AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
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Old Jul 1, 13, 3:20 pm
  #856  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: High Point, NC
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There'll actually be a vote of stakeholders. If they vote for it only the DOT remains as a hurdle. But the stakeholders could vote it down if enough of them don't feel that the POR gives them a sufficient payout.

Jim
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Old Jul 1, 13, 3:21 pm
  #857  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Born and raised in South Carolina, now in New York City.
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Originally Posted by Jasper2:21022844
Originally Posted by saranyc View Post
Well considering that debt holders are owed money (that they lent to the company) and could theoretically force the company to liquidate in order to pay them back, the downsides of a merger are probably better than the alternative.
Debt holders are like any other stake holders. The court ultimately decides who gets paid, how much, when, and in what form. Yes, there is a pecking order (bondholders, shareholders, creditors, employees, etc.) But there is no "theoretical." The only unanswered question is "Will the Justice Department approve." Everything else is already lined up.

I think it's a fair conclusion that all that is left is for the ink to dry.
When I say theoretical and you say there is a pecking order we are saying the same thing. Bond holders have first priority because without their capital the other stakeholders wouldn't have a company to have a stake in in the first place. Bond holders seem to think this is the best option for them to get their money back and the court agrees. Don't be too sure that if the govt disagrees the other stakeholders will be better off.
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Old Jul 1, 13, 3:48 pm
  #858  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Does anyone have any guesses on where the preferred buy up will fall? I'm hoping they keep it around, because for ~7c per PQM, it really doesn't even make sense to mileage run on US. I'm hoping to buy up to Gold after Oct 1 to keep status into 2015, but hopefully it's still an option then.
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Old Jul 1, 13, 7:24 pm
  #859  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: PHL
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Originally Posted by PWMTrav View Post
Does anyone have any guesses on where the preferred buy up will fall? I'm hoping they keep it around, because for ~7c per PQM, it really doesn't even make sense to mileage run on US. I'm hoping to buy up to Gold after Oct 1 to keep status into 2015, but hopefully it's still an option then.
I am also hoping Doug Parker keeps it!!!
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Old Jul 2, 13, 8:13 pm
  #860  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Risk of booking Star Alliance awards for post-merger flights

I'm looking for educated speculation or helpful information on booking tickets for 2014 with US miles. What are the chances that
1. US/NewAA will cancel tickets booked on Star Alliance carriers?
2. The Star Alliance carrier will take advantage of schedule or flight number change to invalidate a ticket? (There is at least one report of Lufthansa doing this on BMI awards after their merger.)
3. US/NewAA will modify some or all award tickets to use AA or Oneworld rather than the original carrier?

And how crazy would I be to book 4 international award tickets (all on UA metal), 2 using UA miles and 2 using US miles, all on the same flights?

Any insight is appreciated.
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Old Jul 2, 13, 8:25 pm
  #861  
 
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I booked a complex ticket on multiple *A carriers for next April and my worry level is minimal. The answer to Q1 is zero. The answer to Q2 is minimal IMO. The answer to Q3 is zero.
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Old Jul 2, 13, 9:24 pm
  #862  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I imagine that alliance tickets are comped by the partner airline at time of booking. I cannot imagine them undoing them.

Also, the merger has been getting a lot of scrutiny lately. I am not sure its a slam dunk. I certainly seems like it may be delayed.
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Old Jul 2, 13, 9:59 pm
  #863  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 100
the problems are
1. changes or flight cancellations
2. benefits of the SA when you are no longer in it. Do you have to Pay for bag? are you entitled to early boarding? how about club access for international?
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Old Jul 2, 13, 10:38 pm
  #864  
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Reports of lawsuit to be filed to block US/AA merger

Opponents to the American Airlines-US Airways mergers are filing a lawsuit Tuesday that seeks to block the deal. The plaintiffs include four from Texas.

The lawsuit is to be filed at 12:30 p.m. Tuesday in San Francisco federal district court, according to an announcement from San Francisco lawyer Joseph Alioto, who has been involved in in other plaintiffs’ lawsuits against merger.

Source: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...marriage.html/

I can't find anything on Pacer yet. So, I assume that if the papers were filed, they were filed in hardcopy. I wonder what took all these people so long
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Old Jul 2, 13, 11:00 pm
  #865  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Originally Posted by burlax View Post
...San Francisco lawyer Joseph Alioto, who has been involved in in other plaintiffs’ lawsuits against merger. ...
Ah yes ... the well-known Mr. Alioto

Of interest from the linked article,
... Alioto’s firm has been involved in a number of plaintiffs’ actions in mergers, including an effort to block the Southwest Airlines-AirTran Airways merger in 2011, the Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines merger in 2008 and the Continental Airlines and United Airlines merger in 2010. ...

...It appears that 29 of the 38 plaintiffs listed in Tuesday’s filing also participated as plaintiffs in the Southwest-AirTran lawsuit. Almost all of the plaintiffs in Tuesday’s filing also participated in the United-Continental lawsuit. ...
Any bets on a successful lawsuit?
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Old Jul 2, 13, 11:15 pm
  #866  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Originally Posted by KennyBSAT View Post
I'm looking for educated speculation or helpful information on booking tickets for 2014 with US miles. What are the chances that
1. US/NewAA will cancel tickets booked on Star Alliance carriers?
The earlier your flights are in 2014 the better.

2. The Star Alliance carrier will take advantage of schedule or flight number change to invalidate a ticket?
Schedule changes (including canceling flights/routes) are always a possibility, especially when booking well in advance - schedules 330 days ahead of time are placeholders only. So your flight being changed/cancelled are less within 6 months of departure and that applies to any flight.

3. US/NewAA will modify some or all award tickets to use AA or Oneworld rather than the original carrier?
Since no one knows when the relationship with *A will end, no one knows. I also believe that US pays the operating carrier the first settlement after the purchase (the payments between carriers are settled monthly I believe). I'd hope that US would give a cut-off date for issuing awards well in advance of that cut-off date. If they do, you'd know when you get the award tickets that they'd be good.

It's a given that at some point in time *A award tickets won't be issued - you can't expect to redeem your US/converted to AA miles on *A forever. All US FF's can only hope that Parker will give advance notice as well as insure that already issued *A tickets are valid. However, I doubt if Parker has complete discretion - I would expect that *A might have some say on how long after US leave *A they will accept US issued awards. Hopefully Parker will integrate the change from *A to OW to eliminate problems for FF's.

Jim

Last edited by BoeingBoy; Jul 2, 13 at 11:21 pm
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Old Jul 3, 13, 6:06 am
  #867  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
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Originally Posted by kudzu View Post
Ah yes ... the well-known Mr. Alioto

Of interest from the linked article,


Any bets on a successful lawsuit?
There was some talk of semi legitimate lawsuits in another thread a few days ago, but this one is pretty stupid because it appears to be anti trust grounds. The department of justice basically approved this deal and when it was first proposed every legal pundit basically said that the merger would be allowed to
Go forward because the two airlines didn't compete much on major routes.
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Old Jul 3, 13, 7:23 am
  #868  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by BoeingBoy View Post
...


Since no one knows when the relationship with *A will end, no one knows. I also believe that US pays the operating carrier the first settlement after the purchase (the payments between carriers are settled monthly I believe).
Here is the IATA reference for the new global standard settlement process, SIS:
http://www.iata.org/services/finance...ges/index.aspx

Alliances and other inter-airline agreements as well as other vendors offer other solutions. As far as US carriers are concerned there is also a unique US settlement system. Almost all these transactions settle via ACH.

Exchange rates are an entirely different issue. Those used for for fare construction (IROE) are indeed monthly, but there are five other exchange rate construction methods used for other purposes. The IATA list is here:http://www.iata.org/services/finance/Pages/xrates.aspx

Not all of this works exactly through IATA, as I mentioned above, due to the alliances and inter-airline agreements, but the vast majority does, whether the airline is an IATA member or not.

That may be overkill for your comment, but...this is FlyerTalk, after all.

Last edited by jbcarioca; Jul 3, 13 at 11:01 am
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Old Jul 3, 13, 7:29 am
  #869  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by BoeingBoy View Post
The earlier your flights are in 2014 the better.



...

I'd hope that US would give a cut-off date for issuing awards well in advance of that cut-off date. If they do, you'd know when you get the award tickets that they'd be good.

It's a given that at some point in time *A award tickets won't be issued - you can't expect to redeem your US/converted to AA miles on *A forever. ...
Given the post I just made I should say I agree with your comments. It would not be conceivable that US would fail to give substantial warning of
changes to DM, including program merger with AAdvantage. As a matter of prudence I'd schedule any redemptions you want to make with the more reluctant *A redemption partners (SQ, LH come to mind) as soon as possible. OTOH, if you're looking to redeem on JJ it probably matters little because JJ is also moving to OW with timing possibly similar to that of US.
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Old Jul 3, 13, 7:31 am
  #870  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Originally Posted by jbcarioca View Post
...this is Milepoint, after all.
Ahem ... are you sure?

(good to see ya here, though)
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