View Poll Results: Is an American Airlines/US Airways merger good for the traveling public?
Yes
84
28.19%
No
214
71.81%
Voters: 298. You may not vote on this poll
Nov 12, 2013, 2:24 pm
Last edit by: aztimm
Note:
There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread
As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.
Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread
As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.
Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
US/AA merger- MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD/incl 'when will US leave STAR'
Nov 21, 2013, 8:00 am
#2356
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,955
So, here's the thing. I don't doubt that if I were flying to Asia and Australia and Europe all the time, that stuff would be nice.
But I don't do that. Practically all of my flying is domestic or to Canada -- I'll likely hit Europe twice in 2014, and that's it. Mostly, I care about:
And I strongly suspect that I am not the outlier here; people who have the vast majority of their travel on domestic-only or US-Canada routes are probably the majority of US-based frequent flyers. And for that type of traveler, US' program is simply better than AA's.
But I don't do that. Practically all of my flying is domestic or to Canada -- I'll likely hit Europe twice in 2014, and that's it. Mostly, I care about:
- Ability to consistently hit domestic upgrades. Telling me that I'm stuck with limited upgrade ability at anything except the highest tier is a non-starter. US is giving me an over-90% upgrade rate on my domestic segments, and unless I always hit EXP AA would not be able to match that.
- For the times when I do fly outside North America, ability to easily redeem miles for travel. And US' award chart is pretty undeniably one of the best in the industry.
And I strongly suspect that I am not the outlier here; people who have the vast majority of their travel on domestic-only or US-Canada routes are probably the majority of US-based frequent flyers. And for that type of traveler, US' program is simply better than AA's.
As a bottom tier, I'm talking 25k level, I'm at probably a 75% upgrade rate on segments. The longer ones, I confirm with miles, since an SP isn't getting that seat at T-2.
AA's program is better if you can hit EXP or go to Asia a lot, but otherwise it's hard to beat US in the Northeast even with the occasional TATL. There are other bright spots like the RDM bonuses. I just hope the blended program is decent.
Nov 21, 2013, 8:19 am
#2357
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
Programs: Oceanic Airlines Gold Elite
Posts: 20,388
Can you give me 2-3 examples of the best US awards? I'm curious what they charge compared to AA for a similar award. AA's best Europe/South America award, for example, is 40K RT in coach. The season to Europe from North America runs six full months. Another is their 10K one way awards on Qantas within Australia or between Australia and New Zealand.
Also, US allows Pacific routing to India (120k in C for US, 135k for AA, Atlantic routing only on AA, so unless you find QR/EY space, be prepared for BA fuel scamcharges). India is in the South Asia zone for US (which means you can do a trip, DEL-BKK-HKG-SIN-BOM on TG/SQ, for 30k in C, 40k in F for US).
US still allows stopovers in US destinations and OAL hubs on round-trip itineraries, and because they allow Atlantic and Pacific routing on the same award as well as a stopover in Europe on transit, you can do "mini"-RTWs; this is a legal itinerary I've done multiple times in F and C: SEA-HKG(dest)-FRA(stop)-SEA (leaving out the connecting segments). Oh, and I can route through BKK on that itinerary (higher priced region) without US blinking an eye (which helps since TG award space is easier to come by than others).
There's also no "published through-fare" nonsense on US awards.
Oh, and if you start a South Asia award in the Caribbean instead of the United States, it's 90k in C, 120k in F. US does not make anyone burn two awards (all locations in their chart have a single award level).
People have routed SPN-ICN-SYD-ICN-SPN for 30K in C (intra-South Pacific award).
So, other than that...
Last edited by eponymous_coward; Nov 21, 2013 at 8:24 am
Nov 21, 2013, 9:02 am
#2358
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EP, AA AC
Posts: 4,268
Actually, that's 90k to North Asia for US (includes HKG, also includes Atlantic routings).
Also, US allows Pacific routing to India (120k in C for US, 135k for AA, Atlantic routing only on AA, so unless you find QR/EY space, be prepared for BA fuel scamcharges). India is in the South Asia zone for US (which means you can do a trip, DEL-BKK-HKG-SIN-BOM on TG/SQ, for 30k in C, 40k in F for US).
US still allows stopovers in US destinations and OAL hubs on round-trip itineraries, and because they allow Atlantic and Pacific routing on the same award as well as a stopover in Europe on transit, you can do "mini"-RTWs; this is a legal itinerary I've done multiple times in F and C: SEA-HKG(dest)-FRA(stop)-SEA (leaving out the connecting segments). Oh, and I can route through BKK on that itinerary (higher priced region) without US blinking an eye (which helps since TG award space is easier to come by than others).
There's also no "published through-fare" nonsense on US awards.
Oh, and if you start a South Asia award in the Caribbean instead of the United States, it's 90k in C, 120k in F. US does not make anyone burn two awards (all locations in their chart have a single award level).
People have routed SPN-ICN-SYD-ICN-SPN for 30K in C (intra-South Pacific award).
So, other than that...
Also, US allows Pacific routing to India (120k in C for US, 135k for AA, Atlantic routing only on AA, so unless you find QR/EY space, be prepared for BA fuel scamcharges). India is in the South Asia zone for US (which means you can do a trip, DEL-BKK-HKG-SIN-BOM on TG/SQ, for 30k in C, 40k in F for US).
US still allows stopovers in US destinations and OAL hubs on round-trip itineraries, and because they allow Atlantic and Pacific routing on the same award as well as a stopover in Europe on transit, you can do "mini"-RTWs; this is a legal itinerary I've done multiple times in F and C: SEA-HKG(dest)-FRA(stop)-SEA (leaving out the connecting segments). Oh, and I can route through BKK on that itinerary (higher priced region) without US blinking an eye (which helps since TG award space is easier to come by than others).
There's also no "published through-fare" nonsense on US awards.
Oh, and if you start a South Asia award in the Caribbean instead of the United States, it's 90k in C, 120k in F. US does not make anyone burn two awards (all locations in their chart have a single award level).
People have routed SPN-ICN-SYD-ICN-SPN for 30K in C (intra-South Pacific award).
So, other than that...
Safe Travels
Nov 21, 2013, 9:54 am
#2359
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Stuck Between the Moon and CLD or SAN, Your local Taco Bell
Programs: AA EXP/LT PLT, DL PM, UA Silver, SPG Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 3,510
Nov 21, 2013, 10:17 am
#2360
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,955
If comparing top tier to top tier, I can see the argument that AA is better. But I do think AA is better by virtue of comparing against what the lower tiers don't get. Given what USDM does at SP/GP/PP, it's incrementally less generous at the CP level but still pretty solid even compared to AA EXP.
Nov 21, 2013, 10:49 am
#2361
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: CLT
Programs: AA EP, AA AC
Posts: 4,268
If comparing top tier to top tier, I can see the argument that AA is better. But I do think AA is better by virtue of comparing against what the lower tiers don't get. Given what USDM does at SP/GP/PP, it's incrementally less generous at the CP level but still pretty solid even compared to AA EXP.
Safe Travels
Nov 21, 2013, 11:23 am
#2362
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
Trashing it's FFs? Please. Stop being so over sensitive. I have never trashed them. I'm absolutely trashing its management. If you were used to flying a premium-oriented airline and it suddenly merged with a low fare carrier, you'd be upset too. I'll stick with AA for now because I'm confident it will take steps to up US' game, like sending current FAs through a training course and introducing meals on US F in the coming months. If it doesn't, yes, I'll leave.
That's like saying UA's a premium oriented carrier because they're big and have 3 cabin configs.
Nov 21, 2013, 11:33 am
#2363
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: los angeles, calif.
Programs: Alaska Airlines Gold MVP
Posts: 7,170
Ability to consistently hit domestic upgrades. Telling me that I'm stuck with limited upgrade ability at anything except the highest tier is a non-starter. US is giving me an over-90% upgrade rate on my domestic segments, and unless I always hit EXP AA would not be able to match that.
The trade off - actual service in first class - is worth it, IMO.
Nov 21, 2013, 11:37 am
#2364
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
Agree with you that AA EXP is generally better than US CP and alot which has to do not so much with "published benefits" (i.e. lounge access, etc), but rather that the (current) culture of AA tends to value its elites and certainly its top tier elites more. AA PLT and GLD which I have been really don't vary that much in level of treatment from the other legacies mid-tier levels. I was a NW PE at the time of the NW-DL merger and was a CO PE and UA1K at the time of integration, of one thing, I am sure that we can be certain based on my experiences with them. How DM and/or AAdvantage look today will not be how they look within 15 months or so from now, both for the better and the worse I reckon.
Safe Travels
Safe Travels
The other benefit cited as being able to use international F lounges is "meh" to me. Granted, my experience is limited to UA and OZ, but I haven't really seen much difference between C and F lounges. UA's was a little nicer in SFO, but not really anything to write home about. In ICN, the only difference I noticed between the OZ F and C lounge is the F lounge was quieter. The food and liquor options weren't any different, and the furniture wasn't either. As long as the lounge gives me a place to sit, has power and WiFi, and has something to snack and drink, I'm good.
I'm not saying some airlines' lounges aren't better than others, just that I don't see a huge difference between C and F lounges other than the crowd.
As far as elite treatment goes, I've only been elite on UA and US. UA used to be pretty good before the merger. That went down the tubes once CO came into the picture. US on the other hand, has always made me feel valued and taken care of. If I send an email in and asked to be called, they actually call me within 24 hours (sometimes same day). I've never had to fight for compensation, and agents have bent over backwards to ensure I was taken care of.
US may be a bit stingy compared to some other carriers (to me, it's just who they are), but I've never felt under-valued.
Nov 21, 2013, 11:40 am
#2365
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
But if you're talking about service in general, all US airlines are hit or missed. You can have great service on one flight, and crap on another. It all depends on the crew you get.
None of them have been consistent. So consider me skeptical of the claims of AA walking on water. Or should I be disappointed by them when they don't live up to the hype?
Nov 21, 2013, 12:37 pm
#2366
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DCA ZWU
Programs: AGR WOH
Posts: 1,785
The DOJ order is for slots, plus "rights and interest in other facilities at the airport necessary to support the use of the slots" like gates, ticket counters, etc. (Not that US has any shortage of ticketing space there -- there's the one in National Hall, the one by the Metro bridge, the one upstairs...)
That said, I don't know if there are many new entrants to DCA among the bidders. Would this end with, say, B6 moving to the middle pier?
That said, I don't know if there are many new entrants to DCA among the bidders. Would this end with, say, B6 moving to the middle pier?
Nov 21, 2013, 12:39 pm
#2367
Join Date: May 2008
Programs: US CP, HH Diamond, Marriott Silver.
Posts: 325
Admiral's Club is already part of the lounge program, no reason that will go away.
The chances of Centurion Elite's getting EXP status is, IMO, zero. AAdvantage is a high end program with useful benefits. AA won't be giving it away like US. US could afford to give it away because it doesn't attract nearly as many high-earning clientele. Giving card members EXP would seriously devalue and dilute the program.
You can offer Centurion card holders AA EXP, and everybody will bite; but giveaway US Airways Chairman Preferred, and nobody cares. It's a pretty useless benefit.
The chances of Centurion Elite's getting EXP status is, IMO, zero. AAdvantage is a high end program with useful benefits. AA won't be giving it away like US. US could afford to give it away because it doesn't attract nearly as many high-earning clientele. Giving card members EXP would seriously devalue and dilute the program.
You can offer Centurion card holders AA EXP, and everybody will bite; but giveaway US Airways Chairman Preferred, and nobody cares. It's a pretty useless benefit.
It might surprise you to know that it was HP FF's (not US FF's) that were the most negatively effected by the HP/US merger the last go around. So if history is any indication of how current Management handles mergers, AA Elites should be less worried than US Elites about things getting screwed up in the transition. Hope that makes you feel a little better
Nov 21, 2013, 2:11 pm
#2368
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 7,710
Since your profile states you are not a US CP, your opinion on the US DM program and it's benefits in regard to CP's carries very little sway with me until you fly 100,000 miles or 120 segments on US and earn the right to make judgments on the program from your personal experience.
Nov 21, 2013, 2:19 pm
#2369
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: Alaska mvp G, AA Exec Plat, Marriott/SPG platinum, United Silver, Delta Silver, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 165
I just reached platinum status this week.. any guess how this will translate after merger since there is no tier equivalent on American.?? also how does the first class upgrade work on US and which program for upgrades will be adapted?
Nov 21, 2013, 2:39 pm
#2370
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: MSY; 2-time FT Fantasy Football Champ, now in recovery.
Programs: AA lifetime GLD; UA Silver; Marriott LTTE; IHG Plat,
Posts: 14,518
Speaking as a 25K level elite on both airlines, there are very few facets where the US program seems superior. And two of these we know will be going away (Star, and Barclays). Unlimited free domestic upgrades are nice, but consensus is that these would be difficult to get, post-merger, and maybe the e500 system would be better for us bottom tier folks.
Other than that, it all tilts in favor of AA. Fewer fees, more fee waivers at my level, more flexible same day changes, one way awards, better domestic low level award availability...
Other than that, it all tilts in favor of AA. Fewer fees, more fee waivers at my level, more flexible same day changes, one way awards, better domestic low level award availability...