View Poll Results: Is an American Airlines/US Airways merger good for the traveling public?
Yes
84
28.19%
No
214
71.81%
Voters: 298. You may not vote on this poll
Last edit by: aztimm
Note:
There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread
As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.
Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
There is an existing thread in the AA forum that may be useful to US and AA Flyertalkers:
US-AA Merger: Just the Facts thread
As facts become posted, that should be the place to look.
Merger discussion, speculation, and other questions can be directed here, or the similar thread in the AA forum:
MERGER: US and AA 9 Dec 2013 and implications for AA flyers (new)
AA - US Merger Agreement / Announcement / DOJ Action Discussion (consolidated, and now closed to new posts)
US/AA merger- MASTER DISCUSSION THREAD/incl 'when will US leave STAR'
#1621
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 139
It sounds as if both sides are using the "s" (settlement) word but that could be jockeying for position and posturing too.
DOJ, American, US Air Open to Settling Merger Antitrust Suit
DOJ, American, US Air Open to Settling Merger Antitrust Suit
American Airlines’ parent AMR Corporation, US Airways, and the U.S. Department of Justice said in a joint filing that the parties were open to resolving the lawsuit challenging the merger of the number four and number five airlines in the United States.
The filing was in advance of a scheduling conference on Friday to resolve a dispute over the trial date. The DOJ initially asked for a trial date in February and later amended that to March. The two airlines are requesting...
The filing was in advance of a scheduling conference on Friday to resolve a dispute over the trial date. The DOJ initially asked for a trial date in February and later amended that to March. The two airlines are requesting...
#1622
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,187
Well, the answer to this is largely is it certain that the government will cave, allow the merger to go through (which really only benefits lawyers and investment bankers) with a minor settlement, likely only effecting DCA slots?
The underlying question is - should the merger be blocked permanently (as, IMO, it should) would US leave *A? Such a move would hurt UA, but I'm not sure it would help US except vis-à-vis UA.
The underlying question is - should the merger be blocked permanently (as, IMO, it should) would US leave *A? Such a move would hurt UA, but I'm not sure it would help US except vis-à-vis UA.
#1623
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
Regardless, I would assume that if the DOJ case is viewed by say top anti-trust lawyers (both Govt and non-Govt) as weak, they could be accused of wasting tax payer $ by pushing for a later trial date and resolution. I have worked with government officials as part of contracts for many years and the single theme they all have is "don't get accused of spending $ on inappropriate tasks".
(Syria, Russia, NSA, army shootings, etc. aren't more important?)
#1624
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BWI
Programs: AA Gold, HH Diamond, National Emerald Executive, TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 15,180
It sounds as if both sides are using the "s" (settlement) word but that could be jockeying for position and posturing too.
DOJ, American, US Air Open to Settling Merger Antitrust Suit
DOJ, American, US Air Open to Settling Merger Antitrust Suit
DoJ has already said they weren't that interested in a settlement, though they'd be listen if US and AA proposed something. I think the preferred outcome is that the suit is settled somehow. Now whether that's with merger dying, or serious concessions is an open question.
US and AA are going to have to show DoJ how any concessions will maintain the competitiveness of the market if they're allowed to merge. I still think that's an uphill battle. Dougie can't just walk in and say he was just kidding with those emails. He also has to go against the previous airlines lying thru their teeth when it came to promises of competition.
#1625
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
Agreed. It's a complete non-story; Wednesday must have been a slow news day.
All parties mentioned two weeks ago when the complaint was filed that they were open to settlement talks, and it was widely reported then.
This week, all parties filed motions/briefs to argue when they believe the trial should be set and once again, they all said they were open to settlement talks. It's boilerplate.
And what happened? Dozens of media outlets picked up on that and ran new stories highlighting the possibility of settlement talks. Most of the media desperately wants the merger to occur, as they've pinned a fair amount of their own credibility on the "fact" that the merger would be good for the airlines, employees and society in general.
To DCann's and jspira's credit, their publication is one of the few which openly questions whether the merger should be allowed to proceed.
On other websites, employees (primarily US employees) are giddy at the news and are openly speculating that it's proof that the DOJ has what they repeatedly refer to as "a weak case." Hope springs eternal.
All parties mentioned two weeks ago when the complaint was filed that they were open to settlement talks, and it was widely reported then.
This week, all parties filed motions/briefs to argue when they believe the trial should be set and once again, they all said they were open to settlement talks. It's boilerplate.
And what happened? Dozens of media outlets picked up on that and ran new stories highlighting the possibility of settlement talks. Most of the media desperately wants the merger to occur, as they've pinned a fair amount of their own credibility on the "fact" that the merger would be good for the airlines, employees and society in general.
To DCann's and jspira's credit, their publication is one of the few which openly questions whether the merger should be allowed to proceed.
On other websites, employees (primarily US employees) are giddy at the news and are openly speculating that it's proof that the DOJ has what they repeatedly refer to as "a weak case." Hope springs eternal.
#1626
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New York and Vienna
Programs: PA WorldPass Platinum, AA, DL, LH. GHA Black, SPG and HHonors Gold
Posts: 3,870
To DCann's and jspira's credit, their publication is one of the few which openly questions whether the merger should be allowed to proceed.
On other websites, employees (primarily US employees) are giddy at the news and are openly speculating that it's proof that the DOJ has what they repeatedly refer to as "a weak case." Hope springs eternal.
#1627
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: DCA
Programs: AA PPro, Mariott Ambassador, B6 Mosaic, SBUX Gold, Best Buy Elite
Posts: 1,838
I assume concessions at DCA would probably result in a cut in regional service, probably not a great thing for DC area travelers as I would doubt another airline would pick up those routes. Although it would probably drive down routes that another airline does choose to fly.
#1628
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: US-CP, UA, Marriott Rewards, HHonors, Avis,
Posts: 4,549
I assume concessions at DCA would probably result in a cut in regional service, probably not a great thing for DC area travelers as I would doubt another airline would pick up those routes. Although it would probably drive down routes that another airline does choose to fly.
I'd like to think that Congress won't have an undue influence on the DOJ, and that the DOJ puts forth their argument based on the good of the average consumer and not what's easiest for Congress, but with the current political atmosphere, nothing is going to surprise me. But I would definitely assume that IF the merger is allowed to proceed, with divestiture at DCA a concession, those small airports will only keep their service long enough for the ink to dry on all the government forms. Even if DOJ requires divestiture and some form of guarantee of service to some of those small markets, they can't require a "forever" guarantee, and those routes will be dropped as soon as legally possible (maybe even sooner).
#1629
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,955
I know BGR gets beat on a lot, but I think there are smaller outposts that would see the axe before Bangor did. I think they carry almost 100,000 pax a year for US Airways. That's not huge, but it's not Huntington WV flying 40k people to CLT a year. BGR isn't an all-CRJ airport or anything - just mostly
#1630
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,955
US and AA are going to have to show DoJ how any concessions will maintain the competitiveness of the market if they're allowed to merge. I still think that's an uphill battle. Dougie can't just walk in and say he was just kidding with those emails. He also has to go against the previous airlines lying thru their teeth when it came to promises of competition.
#1631
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: US-CP, UA, Marriott Rewards, HHonors, Avis,
Posts: 4,549
I know BGR gets beat on a lot, but I think there are smaller outposts that would see the axe before Bangor did. I think they carry almost 100,000 pax a year for US Airways. That's not huge, but it's not Huntington WV flying 40k people to CLT a year. BGR isn't an all-CRJ airport or anything - just mostly
State College, PA, almost anywhere in West VA, Richmond, etc might be other examples I could have used. There's lots of places you can fly from DCA that kind of make me wonder why that route is even around. I've always thought that at least some of these small destinations are kept just for the purpose of camping out on the slot, and that the first chance something "better" comes along, they'll be gone.
#1632
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SEA
Posts: 3,955
Yup just picking on BGR as the first small airport that popped into my head.
State College, PA, almost anywhere in West VA, Richmond, etc might be other examples I could have used. There's lots of places you can fly from DCA that kind of make me wonder why that route is even around. I've always thought that at least some of these small destinations are kept just for the purpose of camping out on the slot, and that the first chance something "better" comes along, they'll be gone.
State College, PA, almost anywhere in West VA, Richmond, etc might be other examples I could have used. There's lots of places you can fly from DCA that kind of make me wonder why that route is even around. I've always thought that at least some of these small destinations are kept just for the purpose of camping out on the slot, and that the first chance something "better" comes along, they'll be gone.
A lot of the smaller airports - one of them in WV is an example - were pork projects. Then, one airline in each gets a subsidy under the Essential Air Service program.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_Air_Service
You can see the list here. There are 3 in Maine, but BGR isn't one of them. Shockingly, US/USX are only on the list once - at Plattsburgh.
That doesn't mean they aren't getting local subsidies, though. BGR, as an example, I'm not sure. But Maine is a huge state and if BGR wasn't there, it'd be an additional 2 hrs to PWM for a lot folks. If you're coming from The County, 4 hrs to get to the airport is awful. At some point, YUL and YQB become closer, but more expensive.
#1633
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 76
Did you know that AA is sending a 757 to DC next month filled with employees to help lobby? An idea by horton I might add.
#1634
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 76
I have to hand it to Dougie, he's made it so that if by some slim chance this merger doesn't happen. He will have caused so much chaos and disorder at AA that it will take lots of time and money to fix things. That was part of his plan with delta, drive up their costs in chpt 11. so it would make them not as competitive as they exited.
ie. loss of managers, gate swaps and network planning.
ie. loss of managers, gate swaps and network planning.
#1635
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
I believe the facts show that they're being bribed, quite expensively, not strong-armed. Pilots get to cash in an estimated $100k in new-AA shares each (with plans to immediately dispose of them--so much for loyalty), flight attendants are getting immediate raises, and so on. And union management get to have bigger workforces to extract dues from.