US and the A321NEO
Feb 22, 2012, 3:33 pm
#46
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Feb 22, 2012, 3:37 pm
#47
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Feb 22, 2012, 4:37 pm
#48
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Feb 22, 2012, 4:37 pm
#49
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Feb 22, 2012, 4:39 pm
#50
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WHy retire them, they aren't the same airplace that came out of long beach 40 yrs ago, they have been refitted with new engine, air frames, interiors, avionics have been upgraded and updated, they are prefectly good airplane.
Feb 22, 2012, 7:18 pm
#51
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Feb 22, 2012, 11:46 pm
#52
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Feb 23, 2012, 12:17 am
#53
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The DC-9 may have been the first major jet plane to require on two officers. This was followed by the 737. I believe the 727 required three.
The benefit of keeping the 767-200 around, is that they are better than getting stuck on a 757 of the same age.
Even though the old planes are not the same plane as when built, ..........
I have known some pilots who claimed that they had more in-flight equipment failures on the old 737-300s vs the newer 737-700s. Even though there are redundant systems, some pilots feel more comfortable when a system does not fail on an over-water flight.
Like I was flyign an old Pan Am 727, and upon landing in Miami the upper portion of the spoiler was seperating from the lower portion, but it did not break off. I told the captain on landing about what had happened, and he just laughed.
The benefit of keeping the 767-200 around, is that they are better than getting stuck on a 757 of the same age.
Even though the old planes are not the same plane as when built, ..........
I have known some pilots who claimed that they had more in-flight equipment failures on the old 737-300s vs the newer 737-700s. Even though there are redundant systems, some pilots feel more comfortable when a system does not fail on an over-water flight.
Like I was flyign an old Pan Am 727, and upon landing in Miami the upper portion of the spoiler was seperating from the lower portion, but it did not break off. I told the captain on landing about what had happened, and he just laughed.
Last edited by BF263533; Feb 23, 2012 at 12:36 am
Feb 23, 2012, 6:07 am
#54
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Ironically, PI was the first carrier in negotiations and getting the 737 and due to ALPA's stance the PI pilots ended up going on strike over the "third man". ALPA called for a nationwide suspension of service, which was prevented when the POTUS suggested that an expert panel look at the safety of 2 pilot vs 3 pilot operations (with the DC9 and turboprops the only 2 pilots ops at the time). The panel found that there was no statistically significant difference in safety, so the two-pilot concept was here to stay - only wide-bodies were designed for a three person cockpit crew thereafter and eventually even those were designed around 2 pilot crews.
Jim
Feb 23, 2012, 7:17 am
#55
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All correct. The DC9-10 was the first to not require a flight engineer (who was likely not a pilot at that time). ALPA, which represented all or very nearly all unionized pilots back then, agreed to it after Douglas promised that it wouldn't build a bigger version, and we know what happened with that promise. So ALPA drew the line in the sand with the 737 - it had to have a third pilot or engineer even though it was designed around a two-pilot crew.
Ironically, PI was the first carrier in negotiations and getting the 737 and due to ALPA's stance the PI pilots ended up going on strike over the "third man". ALPA called for a nationwide suspension of service, which was prevented when the POTUS suggested that an expert panel look at the safety of 2 pilot vs 3 pilot operations (with the DC9 and turboprops the only 2 pilots ops at the time). The panel found that there was no statistically significant difference in safety, so the two-pilot concept was here to stay - only wide-bodies were designed for a three person cockpit crew thereafter and eventually even those were designed around 2 pilot crews.
Jim
Ironically, PI was the first carrier in negotiations and getting the 737 and due to ALPA's stance the PI pilots ended up going on strike over the "third man". ALPA called for a nationwide suspension of service, which was prevented when the POTUS suggested that an expert panel look at the safety of 2 pilot vs 3 pilot operations (with the DC9 and turboprops the only 2 pilots ops at the time). The panel found that there was no statistically significant difference in safety, so the two-pilot concept was here to stay - only wide-bodies were designed for a three person cockpit crew thereafter and eventually even those were designed around 2 pilot crews.
Jim
Feb 23, 2012, 7:29 am
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I believe the 747-400 is a two pilot plane. The 3rd, or in some cases 4th, pilot is there to relieve the other pilots during long-haul flights.
Feb 23, 2012, 8:01 am
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Jim
Feb 23, 2012, 9:08 am
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Feb 23, 2012, 9:29 am
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And the early DC8 and 707 typically seated less than an A320. Times have changed.
Jim
Jim
Feb 23, 2012, 9:42 am
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