Live, Interesting Seat Recline dispute, what would you do?
Nov 7, 2011, 2:03 pm
#46
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I am currently flying CLT – LAX on a US Airways A321. I am in seat 3D and once I began working on my laptop I reclined my seat. Within a few minutes of this, the passenger in 4D turned her air vent on my head, presumably to protest me having my seat reclined.
I summoned the flight attendant and asked him to ask the passenger behind me to take her air vent off my head. He asked her and she complied. About fifteen minutes later, the passenger in 4D got my attention and said, “if you continue to shove your head into my lap, I will turn my air vent back on you.” I replied, “what are you talking about?” She replied, “your seat is reclined too far, do you want to switch?” I responded, “no, this is my chosen seat”. I know that row 4 on the A321 doesn’t recline as far.
I then summoned the flight attendant again and noted to him what she had said to me and her threatening tone. She then spoke to him. He came to me and said, “She has taken her air vent off you, wouldn’t you be so kind as to not recline your seat? No other passengers are reclined.” I responded, “while I am working I want to have my seat reclined, I don’t see why this is a problem. I am 6’ 4” and fly enough to be a Dividend Miles Platinum and this has never been an issue in the past.” He responded, “well in that case I can’t stop her from putting her air vent on your head.”. I replied, “if she continues to do that, I will get out my camera phone and take her picture and post it on flyertalk.com and note that this is a passenger who puts her air vent on other passengers.” He paused for a moment and said, “if you take a picture of her, I will have the police meet this flight in Los Angeles.”
At this point, I continue to work (save for writing this post), and she continues to have her air vent on my head. I will wait to take her picture until I am finished with my work. I believe it is totally within my right to take a picture of other people in public (but I could be wrong, I am not an attorney). Also, note that as far as I can tell, she does not have any sort of medical condition or injury. I would be more inclined to suck it up if she were injured. Neither she nor the flight attendant noted she had any condition.
Have you had similar frustrating discourse with other passengers? So my question for you is, what would you do?
I summoned the flight attendant and asked him to ask the passenger behind me to take her air vent off my head. He asked her and she complied. About fifteen minutes later, the passenger in 4D got my attention and said, “if you continue to shove your head into my lap, I will turn my air vent back on you.” I replied, “what are you talking about?” She replied, “your seat is reclined too far, do you want to switch?” I responded, “no, this is my chosen seat”. I know that row 4 on the A321 doesn’t recline as far.
I then summoned the flight attendant again and noted to him what she had said to me and her threatening tone. She then spoke to him. He came to me and said, “She has taken her air vent off you, wouldn’t you be so kind as to not recline your seat? No other passengers are reclined.” I responded, “while I am working I want to have my seat reclined, I don’t see why this is a problem. I am 6’ 4” and fly enough to be a Dividend Miles Platinum and this has never been an issue in the past.” He responded, “well in that case I can’t stop her from putting her air vent on your head.”. I replied, “if she continues to do that, I will get out my camera phone and take her picture and post it on flyertalk.com and note that this is a passenger who puts her air vent on other passengers.” He paused for a moment and said, “if you take a picture of her, I will have the police meet this flight in Los Angeles.”
At this point, I continue to work (save for writing this post), and she continues to have her air vent on my head. I will wait to take her picture until I am finished with my work. I believe it is totally within my right to take a picture of other people in public (but I could be wrong, I am not an attorney). Also, note that as far as I can tell, she does not have any sort of medical condition or injury. I would be more inclined to suck it up if she were injured. Neither she nor the flight attendant noted she had any condition.
Have you had similar frustrating discourse with other passengers? So my question for you is, what would you do?
Nov 7, 2011, 2:06 pm
#47
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I'm not trying to rehash the recline-or-not debate, nor the shades-up-or-down debate, only trying to demonstrate that the close quarters of an airplane mean that *even when using something as it is designed,* there is a potentially negative impact for your neighbor. That's just what happens when you cram 200 people into an airplane. Even the way you stow your bag in the bin (do you just throw it up there, or do you arrange it in an attempt to conserve space for others?) has an impact on others. If all the passengers were courteous and thought about the impact of their actions on others, then travel wouldn't be the complete slog that it can be sometimes.
And I think we all agree that Air Vent Lady was out of line, and "started" the problem, but that does not give the OP permission to throw fuel onto the fire. The threat of taking the other passenger's picture, the status-dropping, the warning of flyertalk postings, all add up to a hostile gesture whether or not one considers the involvement of the FA as equally hostile.
Simply put: just because the other person is being a jerk doesn't make it OK for you to also be a jerk. It's as true on a plane as it is anywhere else.
Nov 7, 2011, 2:21 pm
#48
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Using the capabilities of a seat given to you by the airline is not an imposition. Demanding that someone refrain from doing so is.
Sorry, but, no -- that is not an imposition. If you are dissatisfied with the amount of space allotted to you by the airline, you have alternatives: book F, book exit row or book bulkhead. Demanding that the person in front of you not use the space allocated to him by the airline is no different than the Passenger of Size demanding that you surrender part of your seat to him. Neither have any claim to space allocated by the airline to someone else.
And, if asked nicely, I might, depending on the circumstances. However, if I am experiencing my fairly chronic neck pain, I will not. Sorry, but I've seen to my needs by ensuring that I booked a seat for which the airline has allocated me recline space. I will not subject myself to pain and discomfort because you did not see to your own seating needs and, instead, have determined that you have some sort of moral claim to my space.
Speaking personally, you'd be doing me a favor. I'm always too warm on flights and would love an additional air vent blowing on me; when there is no one in the seat beside me, I always direct that air vent towards me as well. However, if, for some reason, your doing so discomfited me, I would ask you nicely to redirect it. If you refused, I would pursue the course of action I recommended to the OP, above.
Directing it to blow on someone else does nothing to increase your own comfort, and is childish and petty. There is no comparison, and I'm sure you are aware of that.
Try that explanation with the FA, purser/senior or, if necessary, pilot and see how far it gets you.
Sorry, but, no -- that is not an imposition. If you are dissatisfied with the amount of space allotted to you by the airline, you have alternatives: book F, book exit row or book bulkhead. Demanding that the person in front of you not use the space allocated to him by the airline is no different than the Passenger of Size demanding that you surrender part of your seat to him. Neither have any claim to space allocated by the airline to someone else.
And, if asked nicely, I might, depending on the circumstances. However, if I am experiencing my fairly chronic neck pain, I will not. Sorry, but I've seen to my needs by ensuring that I booked a seat for which the airline has allocated me recline space. I will not subject myself to pain and discomfort because you did not see to your own seating needs and, instead, have determined that you have some sort of moral claim to my space.
Speaking personally, you'd be doing me a favor. I'm always too warm on flights and would love an additional air vent blowing on me; when there is no one in the seat beside me, I always direct that air vent towards me as well. However, if, for some reason, your doing so discomfited me, I would ask you nicely to redirect it. If you refused, I would pursue the course of action I recommended to the OP, above.
Directing it to blow on someone else does nothing to increase your own comfort, and is childish and petty. There is no comparison, and I'm sure you are aware of that.
Try that explanation with the FA, purser/senior or, if necessary, pilot and see how far it gets you.
If I nudge that air vent more towards you because I don't like that you reclined, then yes, I'm being childish but good luck demonstrating that I'm doing anything different than someone that chooses to recline. I could move the vent a little and the person in front could move their seat a little. Why is your neck/back pain more important than my eye discomfort?
I certainly wouldn't demand anything of anyone and never said I would. Quite the opposite. I agree with everyone here that has said we should act like adults, respect each other, and try to get along.
Nov 7, 2011, 2:23 pm
#49
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Wow. We're still discussing this? How many FT threads have been created on this very topic and discussed ad nauseum?
Nov 7, 2011, 2:30 pm
#50
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After all, it's not like the air vents are pumping out that much air and they certainly do have a limit to their range of movement.
* - yes I know that's not what eminent domain is but it sounded good when I wrote it.
Nov 7, 2011, 2:40 pm
#51
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What was the conclusion of the past threads?
My take is that people approach airline seat reclining from two differing, in-conflict premises in mind:
I subscribe to the it is OK to recline and don't complain when others recline narrative of the world. It is with this premise in mind this situation took place.
My take is that people approach airline seat reclining from two differing, in-conflict premises in mind:
The first is that you should have the right to be reclined as you wish as it is your space.
The other is that you should not recline your seat as it impacts the space of those behind you.
Depending which premise you subscribe, impacts your answer when responding to a seat recline situation. Therefore one makes certain assumptions and approaches the issue from a different angle than others. One can be correct from both perspectives depending on which premise you start with (OK to recline/NOT OK to recline) that impacts the narrative and abstraction of the situation.The other is that you should not recline your seat as it impacts the space of those behind you.
I subscribe to the it is OK to recline and don't complain when others recline narrative of the world. It is with this premise in mind this situation took place.
Nov 7, 2011, 2:44 pm
#52
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In this particular case the air vent was not on me prior and once she choose to place it on me, as directly atop my head on full blast and at an angle that it was not hitting the passenger in seat 4D at all. I think the flight attendant was cognizant of this too.
Nov 7, 2011, 2:46 pm
#53
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Again, FTR, I personally don't have an issue with people reclining their seat. I just find it odd that people would defend reclining the seat but not defend using the air vent. Both are there for the passengers' comfort. I don't like the air vent blowing on my face because it bothers my contact lenses. So when I have the vent on it is pointed more towards my legs. In the OP's case, on US's A321 in F, the seats do tend to recline into what seems/feels like the person behind's lap. In this case, if you are reclined you may feel my air vent on you.
Mike
Nov 7, 2011, 2:54 pm
#54
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Haven't you followed the Republican party? Jesus would find all the gays on the plane and beat them up. Then he'd use his captive audience of middle and upper class passengers to hold a rally to cut taxes (because poor people suck and they are a drain on our tax dollars) and kick all the brown people out of Texas and Arizona by cutting off their healthcare and education.
Nov 7, 2011, 2:57 pm
#55
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Sorry, but I don't find either party's behavior appropriate. As a matter of consideration for other passengers, the only time I recline a seat is when I am flying trans-Atlantic in business class (and I am 6' 1", so I am not short, but also not as tall as the OP). Even on a red-eye in coach, I will sleep with my seat fully upright.
The OP wanted to recline his seat so he could work. I don't think I saw any indication of what the person in back was trying to do, but even in 1st class on the 321, the OP's recline might have made it very difficult for the person in back to use her laptop, depending on how far back the OP reclined his seat.
While I don't expect other people to view the world the way I do, I would hope for a higher degree of consideration for other passengers for both the OP and the person in back of him. Some mutual respect would go a long way, especially as airlines take more and more space out of their aircraft.
Regards,
David
The OP wanted to recline his seat so he could work. I don't think I saw any indication of what the person in back was trying to do, but even in 1st class on the 321, the OP's recline might have made it very difficult for the person in back to use her laptop, depending on how far back the OP reclined his seat.
While I don't expect other people to view the world the way I do, I would hope for a higher degree of consideration for other passengers for both the OP and the person in back of him. Some mutual respect would go a long way, especially as airlines take more and more space out of their aircraft.
Regards,
David
At the end of the day, we are all human beings who want to be treated with respect... Sometimes, it doesn't hurt to be the bigger person, when the other person is being childish, and just live and let live, instead of always having to be "right" and to win.
Nov 7, 2011, 2:59 pm
#56
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If I nudge that air vent more towards you because I don't like that you reclined, then yes, I'm being childish but good luck demonstrating that I'm doing anything different than someone that chooses to recline. I could move the vent a little and the person in front could move their seat a little. Why is your neck/back pain more important than my eye discomfort?
Nov 7, 2011, 3:17 pm
#57
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^
Nov 7, 2011, 3:20 pm
#58
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The difference is that the person who reclines is entitled to the space behind him and is using it for his own benefit, not to annoy the person behind them intentionally. Assuming the OP's post is accurate, and I see no reason to believe that it isn't, it is clear that Row 4 was using the vent simply to annoy the OP. If I felt that Row 4 was using the air vent for her own benefit and that the interference with the OP was incidental, then I would defend the use of the air vent.
Mike
Mike
Nov 7, 2011, 3:28 pm
#59
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It's that entitlement thing that is so divisive. My point was simply that if after I've asked nicely (which I've never done BTW [asked, that is - if I did ask I would do it nicely] but I can understand why someone might), and the person then intentionally doesn't want to give an inch, I might act like a child and point my air vent at them.
And that's the whole point. If you ask me for a favor I have a right to say, "no." And vice versa. I might ask you about the air vent. If you said, "I prefer the air flow against my legs," or even just, "sorry, but I prefer it this way," I'd say, "Oh, okay, no problem." And that would be the end of it. I wouldn't look for a way to retaliate nor, for that matter, would I think there was any reason for retaliation.
Nov 7, 2011, 3:37 pm
#60
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To be honest if I was the F/A on that flight. I would look at you both and say " You two are grown adults in the First class cabin, GROW UP" and I would walk away. F/A's are not there to settle your little squabbles. Next thing you know we get involved in the "nuh uhn" and "hes touching me" BS..... I bet one of you two stamped your foot too didn't you.... God knows F/A's have much better things to do than be your mother.