DCAorBust

Dear US AIRWAYS:

Congratulations on your operational turnaround and your number one baggage ranking. Truly outstanding. Now, however, is no time to rest on your laurels. Please set your aim higher in 2011. I look forward to your ranking on this list next year. I think we can all agree that this initiative would add far more to the bottom line than $10 choice seats.

Sincerely,
DCAorBust

cwe84

jrpaguia

Excellent! ^

tommyleo

US's seniority rules assures that this will never happen...

cwe84

Even bigger

You all never cease to amaze me...

tommyleo

What's the problem? It's the truth. US does not try to fill its planes with young, pretty FA's. Some airlines do (even going as far as having maximum size and age requirements for its FA's). By incentivizing its FA's to gain seniority, US can never compete against say, SQ, for the "hot FA's" title. It's just the way it is.

cwe84

So far I have three problems for this thread.

One problem I have is that you all continue to compare US carriers to foreign ones. Many of them are subsidized by their governments and almost all of them have a very different market to work within and almost all of them only have long haul flights. Having only long haul would never work here in the US. Not to mention Americans are cheap.

Second The seniority system is not to blame for the lack of young attractive F/A's, SQ uses it and so doesn't Virgin Atlantic. The great thing about this country is that we have federal laws that don't allow for discrimination based on demographics. Almost all other countries can discriminate. SQ and Virgin are free to place any limits they see fit on their requirements.

The last problem I have is the association of attractiveness with a higher level of service. Just because an F/A can give you a wet dream does not make the service better. Its the perversity of this notion that really bothers me. Its one thing to look at someone and appreciate them. Its another to look at someone as an object...

matthew gulino

Absolutely, agree with cwe84 100%. As a guy, I'm a bit offended by this kind of talk from fellow flyertalkers.

I must say - I think we've come a long way from the 1960's view of women in the workplace. Just the other week, I was listening to two men at a nice restaurant discussing a female colleague. I was impressed with what I heard. Not once was her appearance discussed - simply how well she does this, that, and how maybe if she received some extra training here, it could provide some new perspective into that. I can't imagine this conversation taking place 20 years ago.

I thought we had come so far - and then I read this thread.

Flight attendants are professionals who are aboard airplanes for two reasons:
1. Safety
2. To provide service.

Singapore and Richard Branson might be fine with encouraging the view that only attractive, young women are capable of those two goals, but clearly US and most other US based carriers are not. Frankly, I applaud them for rejecting that view. The laws here in the US do NOT keep them from this policy. Non-attractive people are not a "protected" class under the EEOC, so if US wanted to hire only flight attendants who met attractiveness guidelines, they could. Though they would not be able to discriminate based on race, color, national origin, sex, or religion, age, height, and weight are more fuzzy categories under the law and depend a great deal on state regulation of hiring practices. So it isn't necessarily law that keeps US from doing this - but apparently a solid understanding of the true position responsibilities of a flight attendant - Safety, then service.

GotCalcio4

^ While I do agree with cwe84, I do believe age is a protected class when considering employment law. Please do correct me if I've misread your post.

I must condemn, however, the shallow nature of this thread...

matthew gulino

Age can be used to discriminate to a certain extent:

"The Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA) only forbids age discrimination against people who are age 40 or older. It does not protect workers under the age of 40, although some states do have laws that protect younger workers from age discrimination.

It is not illegal for an employer or other covered entity to favor an older worker over a younger one, even if both workers are age 40 or older.

Discrimination can occur when the victim and the person who inflicted the discrimination are both over 40."

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/age.cfm

For the purposes of this discussion, I assumed that airlines such as Singapore or VA might be targeting women younger than 40 (say 30+), and they would be technically within the law.

You're right though people that are 40+ are protected from discrimination - although if they fire you at 39, it makes it very difficult to challenge the firing on the basis of age discrimination, I'd imagine given the 40+ restriction.

BoeingBoy

Which is where unions and negotiated contracts come in, at least under the RLA. Airlines can furlough those over 40 while those under under 40 continue working as long as the furloughs are done by reverse seniority - last hired, first furloughed.

Then there are laws passed by Congress, regulations issued by a government agency and judicial rulings.

For FA's in particular changes in what is now discrimination came over time and mostly through judicial rulings. I doubt many of you remember first hand the days when FA's couldn't be married and had age/weight requirements.

Having to be single disappeared in in the U.S. by 1970 after FA's filed lawsuits, with the ultimate rulings in favor of the FA's. In the 80's the prohibition against marriage disappeared from U.S. carriers. Finally, the 90's saw the disappearance of strict weight restrictions.

Jim

ukchris

I too find myself a little shocked by this thread, while I have nothing against seeing pretty young attendants on planes it is far from my biggest concern. I'd be happy with quality service no matter what the age, gender or demographic of the flight attendant. I think US would be far better off surveying passengers to get feedback on service in an effective manner and pushing to improve the quality of service provided.

I fly weekly, some FA's are awesome, some deliver what I'd consider a minimum level of service and many are just plain grouchy, I really couldn't say I have observed that the differing levels of service correlate to age, looks or any other aspect.

I just find it absurd that a company like US doesn't focus more on the attitude of staff whether they be at check-in, boarding, onboard or even baggage handlers, nothing disappoints me more than watching the baggage handlers throw our luggage around like it's yesterdays trash. If they do that in full view of the people at the gate what do they do with it behind closed doors?

DCAorBust

Yes the thread is shallow, and mostly tongue-in-cheek, and wasn't meant to garner a serious discussion about sexism. Get over yourselves. Sexism is calling an airline an ugly girl...oh wait...

OTOH, since some have asked for a more serious discussion, here goes. Regardless of "how far we've come" sex still sells--to men and to women. And frankly, only the advertising images in the linked article are sexed up. The fashion runway image of the busty FAs with the improprerly low bust line is way over the top and idealized to a fault, but if you look at the photo of the actual crew on the tarmac with that scraggly old Sir Richard in the middle you'll see a group of gorgeous people outfitted in very fashionable uniforms. Those folks are of all ages and all sizes (and incidentally they're the ones who won the award). You could dress just about any average US crew in those clothes (or UA or AA, or DL, etc.) and they would be just as hot. I always look better in my tux than my sweater. Put your favorite hollywood leading man or lady in one of those pitted blue US sweater uniforms and s/he is going to look frumpy...and like it or not that sweater is part of US's product, in much the same way as a piece of duct tape holding an overhead bin together is part of the product.

M20009

There are ample ways not to violate the law/discriminate and still ensure attractive flight attendants, unless of course you think only a certain class of people is attractive.

M20009

I think you could probably find that older flight attendants are usually more bitter and therefore give poorer customer service. Strangely enough, I have not found this to be the case between older and younger men.