TiredOfTooMuchTravel

I'm not the one that classifies aircraft as to mainline or regional. Carriers (not just US) that fly the E190 classify it as mainline where as they classify the E175s as regional/express.

gottaluvNW

At some point, Delta too made the statement that they would pull out another plane if the current one was full (not sure though if this was applicable towards walk up passengers) - I am talking about around the year 2000...

BoeingBoy

So what you're saying is that the pilot's of an airline determine the capabilities of an airplane by the scope language in their contract specifying which planes can be contracted out? "Mainline" airlines all over the world fly the various E-jets as mainline. Just north of the border, AC flies the E-175 as mainline. LOT operates the E-170 as mainline. On the other hand, Frontier farms out the E-190 flying to Republic.

Embraer has gone to great lengths to distinguish the E-170 to 195 family from the "regional" association, creating the E-jet brand just to keep them from being considered an "ERJ".

I suppose that if US got some A318's with 86 seats, painted Express on the side, and had Mesa operate them you'd consider those "regional jets" also...

Jim

BizJet

Just to follow BoeingBoy's response, yes, you are absolutely right, US Airways does operate the E190 itself and flies it with its own crews, while Delta farms out E175 flying to Shuttle America. (But as Boeing Boy points out, this distinction is by no means universal.)

From a passenger's perspective, what's the difference? They're the exact same plane (just different lengths) and the two carriers configure them very similarly. If there were relevant differences -- e.g., the Shuttle America flights used less convenient gates, were less reliable, or had worse in-flight service -- I could see the point, but that's not the case here in my experience.

cwe84

Just to point out Jim that Frontier and Republic are owned by Republic Airways Holdings. They like Midwest were purchased in BK and Frontier had no scope clause. The E190's were not put on Frontier until after the purchase. All of the pilots of RAH including Republic, Shuttle America, Chautauqua, Lynx, Frontier and Midwest will all be on one single seniority list by the end of the year.

TiredOfTooMuchTravel

Please dont put words in my mouth.

Did I specifically call out pilots? No.. I just said its the airlines that determine if an aircraft is mainline or regional/express/connection. I never specified who within the airline determines that. Obviously that determination doesnt "jive" with what Embraer says but its what it is. Plus why compare intl carriers to domestic carriers? We all know you cant compare the two (they are all airlines but its not comparing apples to apples). Plus you mention Frontier farming out flights to Republic. As far as I'm concerned, that doesn't say much considering they are the same company and soon enough it will all be the same airline. Plus with Frontier they dont use Republic as their express carrier, thats what Lynx is for.

Also, just as a point of reference from the Embraer point of view the E-jets are neither regional or mainline. They are a series of aircraft set in the gap between the two "classifications". Says thats what the philosophy is of the E-jet.

Unimatrix One

I'm sure one of the WN kool-aid drinkers will be willing to explain it to us.

TiredOfTooMuchTravel

You are probably right.. My thought is that it works for some people but not for others. Since I do end up flying a lot of connections, I'd rather know I have a seat assignment than worry about getting stuck with a crap seat in the case of a short connection.

BoeingBoy

Not in so many words, but since it's the scope language that controls who flies which airplane the meaning is the same whether you say it's the carrier or the pilots' contract.

If the E-Jets are "regional jets", they're "regional jets" no matter who flys them. If they're mainline type equipment, they're mainline type equipment no matter who flys them.

[QUOTEPlus why compare intl carriers to domestic carriers? We all know you cant compare the two (they are all airlines but its not comparing apples to apples).[/QUOTE]

Because they fly the E-jets in the same type of operations, do they not. Same airplanes, same type of ops, apples to apples.

Jim

BoeingBoy

All true and public knowledge for anyone interested. But specific airplanes are operated by specific carriers, not RAH since it doesn't hold it's own separate operating certificate (no airline holding company does).

The 190's are flown by Republic Airlines on it's own certificate while the Airbuses are flown by Frontier under it's own certificate. The 190's are flown with Frontier and/or Midwest livery even though operated by Republic Airlines, just like Mesa operates CRJ900's with the US livery for US (although the contractual relationship is possibly different).

My only point was why the different view of an airplane type based on nothing but who flies it? Why consider a E175 flown for DL a regional jet while maintaining that an E190 flown for Frontier is a mainline jet?

Jim

TiredOfTooMuchTravel

This is how the airlines market these aircraft to their passengers.

Express/connection flights generally have the "i'm gonna get a lesser experience" stigma connected to them (and more often that not, it holds true). Thats why IMO, have a different view.

cwe84

Thanks for the first part. As for that last part though Lynx will totally be gone by the end of next month and the last of the Q400's will be operated by Republic for Frontier.

BoeingBoy

That I agree with, but because they usually operate smaller RJ's than the E-jets - either/both in seating capacity and cabin comfort.

But just look at all the favorable comments about the E170/175 on this forum - hardly what you'd generally hear about the typical "regional jet". Many seem to like the E-jets more than some "mainline" type equipment, especially the E-jets with FC. Which is why the "RJ" implication doesn't fit the E-jets, regardless of who flies them.

Jim

cwe84

Sorry Jim I just took the words "farming out" in the negative.

BoeingBoy

No problem on this end and I didn't mean it as a perjoritive. Just meant that the airline operating the plane is different than the name on the fuselage.

Jim