vincentvan

As someone who flies predominately east-west (though this month I have a higher number of north-south routes than is usual) PIT made sense for me, living, as I do, on the way to nowhere. The transition to PHL makes perfect sense from a business perspective. I do not mind PHL (seems like I am in the minority), it has usually worked out OK for me. I find the US staff there to be accomodating.

jbird82

When did US make DCA a hub ( I know it's not officially, but it basically is at this point)? Was it after they dismantled PIT?

BoeingBoy

Although not as big as it currently is (US gained slots over the years), DCA has been pretty much the same type of operation for 20 years - a mixture of O&D and connecting traffic.

The big change was managing (starting in '93 I think) and then buying the Shuttle (about '98).

Jim

NoMiddleSeat

I understand the O&D inhibiting PIT, but I'm curious if anyone has comparables to say CLT which I understand has smallish O&D numbers.

I've reduced my US flying because of DCA...that small and quaint terminal us bit so much during peak hours -more people than an Indian Bazaar.

Is it just me or did the DL swap idea sound odd.... sounded like additional flights out of gate 35...yikes!

BoeingBoy

Basically comparable.

Jim

joejones

You must have never visited MIA or IAD, then. PHL isn't bad at all, especially considering the city it's in.

CLT's great virtue is that it is very cheap, both in terms of landing fees and in terms of taxes and other operating costs.

BoeingBoy

The quickest source doesn't give O&D traffic numbers but rather gives the top 100 airports ranked by O&D traffic. CLT was #34 in the 3rd quarter of 2009 while PIT was #35. PHL was #11 and PHX was #9.

Jim

USPhilly

Those who left US because they devalued PIT as a hub isn't really a fair argument IMO. Yes, US lost people because of that, and those people have a right to be upset, but I'm sure US also gained a lot of customers (probably more since PHL is a bigger city) as a result of having PHL as a hub.

BoeingBoy

Undoubtedly, but PIT and PHL were hubs at the same time. What spelled the end of the PIT hub was the shrinkage of US, thus not having the airplanes for 3 hub operations. CLT was a given to remain a hub because of it's location, cost, and higher fares while PHL had the O&D advantage over PIT.

It'd be interesting to see how much extra O&D traffic US realized at PHL vs PIT when the decision was made to abandon the PIT hub - at PIT (like CLT) US had the preponderance of O&D while at PHL it was more evenly spread among the other airlines operating there.

Jim

flight62

For all the US Airways hating Burghers, your city couldn't negotiate a fair deal to keep the US hub by lowering the cost at the airport. Your city DID, however, find PLENTY of funding for two new stadiums. No pity here. The airport has adjusted just like a LOOOOOOOOONG list of other airports around the country abandoned by airlines. Next up? Cincy and Delwest. Memphis, hold on!!

CLTUSCAPTIVE

These nostalgic PIT threads have the feeling of beating a (very) dead horse. PIT was a great place to connect as a passenger, and Pittsburgh is a fine city, but the economics of keeping a high-cost hub in a small city made the decision to de-hub a no-brainer once fares began to drop. PIT is one of many smaller cities that lost hub or focus city status as the airline business changed, but due to civic pride (and some bitterness), some people have trouble moving on....

USPhilly

Once again, thanks for clarifying Jim. I didn't realize that both PIT and PHL were hubs at the same time. I read it as PIT was more of a hub than PHL, PIT being devalued while PHL being grown.

BoeingBoy

There was some of that - the planes to build up PHL had to come from somewhere. Some came from dismantling the former PSA west coast operation, some came from cutting flights at both PIT and CLT, and some came from cutting back point to point service. If memory serves, PHL was called a hub by about 1993-1995. PIT ceased being referred to as a hub after the cuts post-911 and in BK1.

Jim

FreqFlyerPhil

Just a gentle reminder that while the city did build the stadiums (with a new hockey arena on the way), the county was responsible for the airport. There was bad faith on BOTH sides of the equation, and more than enough abuse of the originating passengers by US.

Interestingly, WN, DL, and FL have NOT found the airport fees to be prohibitive. And, surprisingly (or not), O&D traffic has gone UP since US left PIT because their ridiculous hub-captive fares were driving O&D traffic to other, regional airports like CAK and CLE. Why fly direct PIT-XXX for 3x what it would cost to fly CAK-PIT-XXX?

Further, the stadiums generate revenue for the city and surrounding areas. A connecting hub, not so much.

Pittsburgh and Pittsburghers are not interested in anyone's pity. In fact, I think we're much better off now that real competition and an increased international schedule has come to town.

You bet we have adjusted. And are better for it. Now that the lies and broken promises are over, the airport authority and the originating traffic can move on and make sound economic decisions about who they'll patronize with their money. It may be US. It may be WN. Who knows. At least we're no longer held captive to the capricious whims of bad management and surly staff.

I do agree with one thing you've said, Flight 62: Airports like CVG, MEM, and even CLE ought to look at what happened to PIT (and BWI for that matter) as a cautionary tale.

santarosaflyer

US got a great airline and a great hub when it merged with Piedmont. AA tried hubs at Nashville and Raleigh and they failed against CLT. CLT's regional competion as a hub are ATL, MEM, and IAD. Yes, CLT loses to ATL but CLT pulls travelers from the middle Atlantic areas which is still a growing area.

In the Northeat, US has competition from BOS, EWR, and JFK. It could not build its strength on operating hubs in PIT, PHL and BWI at the same time.
PIT and BWI went. US is trying to build DCA to their DC area stronghold.

Truthfully, I think US has suffered from poor management for decades. It had a very traditional model and did not adjust for the future. It was very late in improving its product - remember the brown and maroon colors; late going trans-Atlantic. And way too long in being loyal to Pittsburgh.