The US/DL LGA slot swap [Master Thread]

 
Old May 26, 11, 8:46 pm
  #151  
 
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Demoralized

No more nonstop from LGA to ORF. Given the manifold flight delays out of LGA, I am not sure that I am willing to risk the time and expense of getting stuck down the road trying to make connections home.
No more LGA to PVD or GSO. I used that service a fair amount on multi-stop trips over the years. Without those segments, there goes CP.

Once again for the stupid among us, other that trying to raise fares out of DCA, why is this good for USAir?
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Old May 26, 11, 10:01 pm
  #152  
 
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Originally Posted by cwe84 View Post
dcpatti we dont go to MEM its a thru flight via CLT. BHM used to be from DCA but stopped in favor of more Florida routes.
I thought BHM disappeared after 9-11. Used to be 3x daily on a Do328 and then a CRJ.

I think service to ROA died around the same time.
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Old May 26, 11, 10:22 pm
  #153  
 
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Originally Posted by Paper Tiger View Post
Once again for the stupid among us, other that trying to raise fares out of DCA, why is this good for USAir?
DCA is already a pretty high yield market. If this goes through it will give US a majority of the slots at an airport where competition is restricted by the slot controls.

Jim
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Old May 27, 11, 9:21 am
  #154  
 
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Originally Posted by tolkiennut View Post
There goes my 3x MDT to LGA

Even if there was no gate swap, I'm stunned they had brought back the service a few months back. I flew the route yesterday... 12 people onboard... and that is with $100 each way T fares up to 7 days prior...
Just flew this route again yesterday. 5 total pax on the plane... and 2 of them were FA's in transit.

So that means we had:
2 pilots
1 FA
2 FA's in transit
3 pax (and I was the only one for which LGA was my final destination)

That's a 2:1 US Air to pax ratio!!!
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Old May 27, 11, 10:52 am
  #155  
 
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I think on some of the routes in/out of LGA US is just babysitting the slots. After a certain amount of time passes without a slot being used it can be taken back and reallocated.

Jim
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Old May 27, 11, 10:54 am
  #156  
 
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Originally Posted by BoeingBoy View Post
DCA is already a pretty high yield market. If this goes through it will give US a majority of the slots at an airport where competition is restricted by the slot controls.

Jim
In today's era of big government and bailouts, having the washington croud flyong their planes and collecting their miles is probably a very good move.
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Old May 27, 11, 10:56 am
  #157  
 
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Originally Posted by BoeingBoy View Post
DCA is already a pretty high yield market. If this goes through it will give US a majority of the slots at an airport where competition is restricted by the slot controls.

Jim
In today's era of big government and bailouts, having the washington croud flying their planes and collecting their miles is probably a very good move.
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Old May 28, 11, 2:48 pm
  #158  
 
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Originally Posted by DCAorBust View Post
Appears that divestiture is still a sticking point. I'm guessing that US & DL are arguing hard that they shouldn't have to divest since the proverbial camel's nose is already under the tent with WN getting into both LGA & DCA.
IIRC, under one of the previous versions of this deal, airlines with limited service were defined as those airlines which had less than 5% of the total available slots. At DCA, AirTran had less than 5% of the total available slots, so they were eligible. I think the only slots at DCA that WN is getting are the old AirTran slots, so it seems they (WN) would still have less than 5% of the available slots, and thus be eligible for more.

At LGA, it may be different. Under the previous plan, both AirTran and WN were eligible because each had less than 5% of the available slots. But if the total of AirTran's & WN's slots combined are more than 5%, then WN might not be eligible for any more LGA slots.

Originally Posted by dcpatti View Post
On a fun note: shall we speculate on the 15 new routes? I'm guessing at least some of them will be into cities where currently there is service from LGA but not from DCA. Makes sense to try to keep whatever customers you already have.

My picks:

[SNIP]

AUS: it's growing again, and nobody has a daily nonstop from DCA; best you can do is twice daily from IAD on UA, which is usually one of the most expensive flights around
At 1315 miles, AUS-DCA is 65 miles over the current limit and would also require a beyond-perimeter exemption.
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Old May 28, 11, 4:56 pm
  #159  
 
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Originally Posted by dcpatti View Post
On a fun note: shall we speculate on the 15 new routes? I'm guessing at least some of them will be into cities where currently there is service from LGA but not from DCA. Makes sense to try to keep whatever customers you already have.
Per the 2009 announcement, the 15 cities were:
Cincinnati, Des Moines, Grand Rapids, Madison, Montreal, Ottawa, Miami, Birminham, Islip, Ithaca, Little Rock, Myrtle Beach, Pensacola, Savannah, Tallahassee.

I assume most of those would stay unless they get some perimeter exceptions.

And giving proper credit:
http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/13/de...-and-ny-slots/

Cheers.
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Old May 28, 11, 9:01 pm
  #160  
 
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Looks like US will cut 31 destinations ex-LGA, with which other airports US flies to nonstop from there (lists per Wikipedia and June US timetable):

Albany - BOS CLT PHL DCA
Asheville (NC) - CLT PHL
Baltimore - CLT PHL PHX
Bangor - PHL DCA
Buffalo - BOS CLT PHL DCA
Burlington (VT) - PHL DCA
Charleston (SC) - CLT PHL DCA
Charlottesville - CLT PHL
Columbia (SC) - CLT PHL DCA
Columbus (OH) - CLT PHL PHX DCA
Dayton - CLT PHL DCA
Greensboro - CLT PHL DCA
Greenville/Spartanburg (SC) - CLT PHL DCA
Harrisburg - BOS CLT PHL
Hartford - CLT PHL PIT DCA
Ithaca - PHL
Lexington (KY) - CLT
Louisville - CLT PHL DCA
Manchester (NH) - CLT PHL DCA
Martha's Vineyard - DCA
Nantucket - DCA
Norfolk - CLT PHL DCA
Portland (ME) - CLT PHL DCA
Providence - CLT PHL DCA
Raleigh/Durham - CLT PHL PIT DCA
Richmond - BOS CLT PHL
Roanoke - CLT PHL
Rochester (NY) - BOS CLT PHL DCA
Syracuse - BOS CLT PHL DCA
Washington-Dulles - CLT
Wilmington (NC) - CLT PHL DCA

Compared to the 2009 proposal, only ITH (from which I think US receives subsidies) would have gained new service ex-DCA. Of the remaining nine cities without existing US flights from DCA, only AVL and LEX are not within 100 miles of DCA. They also are not served by UA ex-IAD.

Of the 15 new cities circa 2009:
- five are state/national capitals
- five are within big metros
- three are Southern coastal resorts (one with a giant military installation), and
- Grand Rapids is the outlier.
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Old May 28, 11, 11:33 pm
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by paytonc View Post
Looks like US will cut 31 destinations ex-LGA, with which other airports US flies to nonstop from there (lists per Wikipedia and June US timetable):

Albany - BOS CLT PHL DCA
Asheville (NC) - CLT PHL
Baltimore - CLT PHL PHX
Bangor - PHL DCA
Buffalo - BOS CLT PHL DCA
Burlington (VT) - PHL DCA
Charleston (SC) - CLT PHL DCA
Charlottesville - CLT PHL
Columbia (SC) - CLT PHL DCA
Columbus (OH) - CLT PHL PHX DCA
Dayton - CLT PHL DCA
Greensboro - CLT PHL DCA
Greenville/Spartanburg (SC) - CLT PHL DCA
Harrisburg - BOS CLT PHL
Hartford - CLT PHL PIT DCA
Ithaca - PHL
Lexington (KY) - CLT
Louisville - CLT PHL DCA
Manchester (NH) - CLT PHL DCA
Martha's Vineyard - DCA
Nantucket - DCA
Norfolk - CLT PHL DCA
Portland (ME) - CLT PHL DCA
Providence - CLT PHL DCA
Raleigh/Durham - CLT PHL PIT DCA
Richmond - BOS CLT PHL
Roanoke - CLT PHL
Rochester (NY) - BOS CLT PHL DCA
Syracuse - BOS CLT PHL DCA
Washington-Dulles - CLT
Wilmington (NC) - CLT PHL DCA

Compared to the 2009 proposal, only ITH (from which I think US receives subsidies) would have gained new service ex-DCA. Of the remaining nine cities without existing US flights from DCA, only AVL and LEX are not within 100 miles of DCA. They also are not served by UA ex-IAD.

Of the 15 new cities circa 2009:
- five are state/national capitals
- five are within big metros
- three are Southern coastal resorts (one with a giant military installation), and
- Grand Rapids is the outlier.
Nice analysis! Well done everyone! ^
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Old May 30, 11, 4:26 pm
  #162  
 
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So is this (reincarnated) deal still alive? If so, can we change the subject line again to remove the "drop it" language--it certainly looks to be going forward in its revised form!
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Old May 30, 11, 7:27 pm
  #163  
 
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Originally Posted by MKE-MR View Post
So is this (reincarnated) deal still alive? If so, can we change the subject line again to remove the "drop it" language--it certainly looks to be going forward in its revised form!
+1
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Old May 31, 11, 7:45 am
  #164  
 
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Some of the cities should not be called "new" routes. At one time US did fly non-stop to DCA-Montreal. I am surprised they didn't bring back DCA-Toronto

Originally Posted by PWMFlyer19 View Post
Per the 2009 announcement, the 15 cities were:
Cincinnati, Des Moines, Grand Rapids, Madison, Montreal, Ottawa, Miami, Birminham, Islip, Ithaca, Little Rock, Myrtle Beach, Pensacola, Savannah, Tallahassee.

I assume most of those would stay unless they get some perimeter exceptions.

And giving proper credit:
http://crankyflier.com/2009/08/13/de...-and-ny-slots/

Cheers.
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Old May 31, 11, 8:45 am
  #165  
 
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Originally Posted by US AIRWAYS FAN View Post
Some of the cities should not be called "new" routes. At one time US did fly non-stop to DCA-Montreal. I am surprised they didn't bring back DCA-Toronto
I know this gets bantied about from time to time....how about DCA-LCY? Find 2 or 3 A318s and get a beyond perimeter exemption.

Can a lightly loaded A318 (full fuel, but 35 C class seats) make it DCA-LCY without refueling?
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