Round the World ticket Q's
Dec 30, 2009, 11:15 pm
#16
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Yeah, 5 stops is not "enough"; however, the no-change-after-travel-starts rule actually kills the RTW deal for many travelers who (A) are traveling for extended periods and need to remain flexible or (B) keep several RTW itins open in order to achieve max value (revenue *A RTWs are valid up to a year from first travel, with unlimited free date changes and routing changes for a fee).
Dec 30, 2009, 11:34 pm
#17
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Dec 31, 2009, 12:04 am
#18
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Star Alliance Round-the-World awards permit five en route stopovers in a forward direction toward the original departure city.
I clarified that "forward direction" just means you can't backtrack east/west -- you can zig-zag north-south without limitation. Well, you can zig-zag five times
Dec 31, 2009, 12:17 am
#19
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A lovely little town filled with cows
Programs: US2, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 3,284
FWIW, the 5 stopover rule is the same over at UA (as are the mileage costs).
I don't consider RTWs to be a good use of miles for the reasons cited above - lack of stopover flexibility, lack of change-after-departure, etc.
You can book essentially a RTW with plenty of lower-cost itineraries if you get a flexible agent. You can definitely do this with AC miles given their official rules.
I don't consider RTWs to be a good use of miles for the reasons cited above - lack of stopover flexibility, lack of change-after-departure, etc.
You can book essentially a RTW with plenty of lower-cost itineraries if you get a flexible agent. You can definitely do this with AC miles given their official rules.
Dec 31, 2009, 12:23 am
#20
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Arizona
Programs: BA (GGL G4L), AA (Gold), HH (Diamond); Marriott (Gold)
Posts: 3,011
round the world
My understanding is that 5 stops is the limit for the economy class ticket only.
This year I flew on a US Airways RTW ticket, but I purchased if for about $11,000 in business class. First class was not bought because only one carrier had first class available (Asiana) on my selected route... Singapore Airlines doesn't offer Suite Class for First class RTW tickets on their A380s.
My route:
* (PHX)-LAX-ICN-PEK-NRT-AKL-(ZQN-AKL)-SYD-SIN-LHR-AMS-MUN-(Berlin/Prague)-LHR-(car-Edinburgh-GLA-LHR-ARN-DUB-GWY-car-SNN-DUB-FRA-MXP-LIN-ZUR-CDG-chunnel)-LGW-CLT-PHX (items in parenthesis were on separate tickets, items spelled out were train or car and not airports)
Here are a bunch of notes:
* The RTWCALC team was very awesome, and extremely responsive via email and in helping suggest flights. They seem to have 3 or 4 dedicated people... ask for them.
* you can't pass through the same city too many times (more than twice I think)... so for example, if you want to go to a bunch of cities around Europe, buy some of the segments separately
* open jaw, you pay the difference in miles... even for switching airports in the same city
* business and first class have 3 tiers based on miles
* staralliance.com has good tools for selecting routes
* Singapore Air took up until the last minute to confirm in business class with frequent calls... I had a backup plan through BKK on Thai/LH
* They have since "fixed" the problem with "premium aircraft" by charging a surplus per segment of up to $600 per segment (Star Alliance web site will show this), with confirmation
* Changes in dates/times are allowed without fee with availability, but destinations are only changeable without fee if your class of service cannot be confirmed
* The Star Alliance web site doesn't seem to actually let me finish the purchase of a ticket using Safari or Firefox. But it is really helpful in finding flights/routes/aircraft type/service of class available/etc.
* The class of service all around was awesome
* Europe "business class" is hilarious for short flights... no one seated next to you on regional jets... one person asked if they could sit in empty row 2 as the flight was full... I was the one person in business class... they told him rows 1 and 2 were reserved for business class passengers only (e.g. me)... they have curtains they can move between rows. They also serve meals even on short flights.
* I highly recommend flying west to reduce jetlag.
* My understanding is that the 300,000 and 400,000 mile for business and first class will act like the full 16 stops, 39,000 miles, only cross each zone once... e.g. you can backtrack from Tokyo down to New Zealand, but you can only cross the Atlantic and Pacific once.
* For segments on this ticket, and other segments, you need to be pretty belligerent in making sure the airline gives you credit for your frequent flier miles (if you pay)...
* RTW tickets are often actually a few separate tickets internally, and sometimes they'll not know that you are Star Gold or Silver... you may want to call each airline to verify.
* SIN and Asiana were the best. Having a 49 seat business class cabin to myself on a 777 from Seoul to Beijing was pretty silly as well.
* Be sure to use Seat Guru in selecting all of your seats.
This year I flew on a US Airways RTW ticket, but I purchased if for about $11,000 in business class. First class was not bought because only one carrier had first class available (Asiana) on my selected route... Singapore Airlines doesn't offer Suite Class for First class RTW tickets on their A380s.
My route:
* (PHX)-LAX-ICN-PEK-NRT-AKL-(ZQN-AKL)-SYD-SIN-LHR-AMS-MUN-(Berlin/Prague)-LHR-(car-Edinburgh-GLA-LHR-ARN-DUB-GWY-car-SNN-DUB-FRA-MXP-LIN-ZUR-CDG-chunnel)-LGW-CLT-PHX (items in parenthesis were on separate tickets, items spelled out were train or car and not airports)
Here are a bunch of notes:
* The RTWCALC team was very awesome, and extremely responsive via email and in helping suggest flights. They seem to have 3 or 4 dedicated people... ask for them.
* you can't pass through the same city too many times (more than twice I think)... so for example, if you want to go to a bunch of cities around Europe, buy some of the segments separately
* open jaw, you pay the difference in miles... even for switching airports in the same city
* business and first class have 3 tiers based on miles
* staralliance.com has good tools for selecting routes
* Singapore Air took up until the last minute to confirm in business class with frequent calls... I had a backup plan through BKK on Thai/LH
* They have since "fixed" the problem with "premium aircraft" by charging a surplus per segment of up to $600 per segment (Star Alliance web site will show this), with confirmation
* Changes in dates/times are allowed without fee with availability, but destinations are only changeable without fee if your class of service cannot be confirmed
* The Star Alliance web site doesn't seem to actually let me finish the purchase of a ticket using Safari or Firefox. But it is really helpful in finding flights/routes/aircraft type/service of class available/etc.
* The class of service all around was awesome
* Europe "business class" is hilarious for short flights... no one seated next to you on regional jets... one person asked if they could sit in empty row 2 as the flight was full... I was the one person in business class... they told him rows 1 and 2 were reserved for business class passengers only (e.g. me)... they have curtains they can move between rows. They also serve meals even on short flights.
* I highly recommend flying west to reduce jetlag.
* My understanding is that the 300,000 and 400,000 mile for business and first class will act like the full 16 stops, 39,000 miles, only cross each zone once... e.g. you can backtrack from Tokyo down to New Zealand, but you can only cross the Atlantic and Pacific once.
* For segments on this ticket, and other segments, you need to be pretty belligerent in making sure the airline gives you credit for your frequent flier miles (if you pay)...
* RTW tickets are often actually a few separate tickets internally, and sometimes they'll not know that you are Star Gold or Silver... you may want to call each airline to verify.
* SIN and Asiana were the best. Having a 49 seat business class cabin to myself on a 777 from Seoul to Beijing was pretty silly as well.
* Be sure to use Seat Guru in selecting all of your seats.
Dec 31, 2009, 12:31 am
#21
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Purgatory
Programs: Too many to list. Status is a half dozen.
Posts: 9,235
My understanding is that 5 stops is the limit for the economy class ticket only.
This year I flew on a US Airways RTW ticket, but I purchased if for about $11,000 in business class. First class was not bought because only one carrier had first class available (Asiana) on my selected route... Singapore Airlines doesn't offer Suite Class for First class RTW tickets on their A380s.
This year I flew on a US Airways RTW ticket, but I purchased if for about $11,000 in business class. First class was not bought because only one carrier had first class available (Asiana) on my selected route... Singapore Airlines doesn't offer Suite Class for First class RTW tickets on their A380s.
What leads you to believe the RTW restrictions don't apply to C or F awards at 300K/400k? Your ticket was paid so the rules are significantly less restrictive.
The discussion of this thread is mainly about the limits on RTW tickets booked via 200/300/400K miles for coach/biz/first. As you've seen, revenue RTW fares can be a very good value for the money. The award restrictions make it a lousy value for miles redemption though.
Dec 31, 2009, 12:31 am
#22
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Thanks for the report on the revenue RTW ticket, dylanks.
Will call to clarify whether 200k/300k/400k RTW redemptions are all limited to 5 stops. Why do I get the feeling that nobody I've reached at the US Air international desk has ever dealt with a RTW award of any sort (Y/C/F) before?
I'm guessing even if your speculation about biz being more than 5 stopovers is correct, it still doesn't change the very inconvenient fact that route/dates are completely locked down after travel begins for award tix
Will call to clarify whether 200k/300k/400k RTW redemptions are all limited to 5 stops. Why do I get the feeling that nobody I've reached at the US Air international desk has ever dealt with a RTW award of any sort (Y/C/F) before?
I'm guessing even if your speculation about biz being more than 5 stopovers is correct, it still doesn't change the very inconvenient fact that route/dates are completely locked down after travel begins for award tix
Dec 31, 2009, 12:38 am
#23
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A lovely little town filled with cows
Programs: US2, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 3,284
Thanks for the report on the revenue RTW ticket, dylanks.
Will call to clarify whether 200k/300k/400k RTW redemptions are all limited to 5 stops. Why do I get the feeling that nobody I've reached at the US Air international desk has ever dealt with a RTW award of any sort (Y/C/F) before?
I'm guessing even if your speculation about biz being more than 5 stopovers is correct, it still doesn't change the very inconvenient fact that route/dates are completely locked down after travel begins for award tix
Will call to clarify whether 200k/300k/400k RTW redemptions are all limited to 5 stops. Why do I get the feeling that nobody I've reached at the US Air international desk has ever dealt with a RTW award of any sort (Y/C/F) before?
I'm guessing even if your speculation about biz being more than 5 stopovers is correct, it still doesn't change the very inconvenient fact that route/dates are completely locked down after travel begins for award tix
Good luck and please report back with your experiences. Even with only five stopovers, you can probably still make it work with nesting some same-region award or paid tickets, and/or maximizing use of 23h 59m layovers in other cities depending on what you need to do.
Dec 31, 2009, 1:11 am
#24
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Arizona
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Posts: 3,011
Yes, I've been reading about the 250% bonus program, finally decided to "join".
Ah, a key detail I left out... I asked when I booked my RTW if this was the same whether purchased or with miles, and they said yes, but availability is more limited.
That said, I'll email them and ask if that's the case.
Given that you also earn full miles for each segment, and a class of service bonus (or chairman's bonus on US flights), I think buying this ticket almost always is a better deal... unless you bought a million miles with the trackitback deal! And it made it really easy to reach chairman's status this year.
What leads you to believe the RTW restrictions don't apply to C or F awards at 300K/400k? Your ticket was paid so the rules are significantly less restrictive.
That said, I'll email them and ask if that's the case.
The discussion of this thread is mainly about the limits on RTW tickets booked via 200/300/400K miles for coach/biz/first. As you've seen, revenue RTW fares can be a very good value for the money. The award restrictions make it a lousy value for miles redemption though.
Dec 31, 2009, 9:16 am
#25
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Washington DC
Programs: AA Nothing, Marriott Gold
Posts: 581
Wow, with the 250% bonus promotion and TIB, you could have gotten economy RW tickets for ~$1500 a piece and business class for $2100.
Damn!
Damn!
Dec 31, 2009, 11:27 am
#26
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: High Point, NC
Programs: None
Posts: 9,171
Jim
Dec 31, 2009, 12:26 pm
#27
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Arizona
Programs: BA (GGL G4L), AA (Gold), HH (Diamond); Marriott (Gold)
Posts: 3,011
Straight from the source
FYI, Here's the response I received:
The DM Award RTW rules are different from the purchase awards. Here are
most of the rules.
10 VALID CARRIERS ALL US DM PARTNERS
11
12 TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR RTW JOURNEY
13 ALL DM AWARD RULES APPLY PLUS THE FOLLOWING.
14
15 ITINERARY THE FOLLOWING ITINERARIES ARE
16 PERMITTED..
17 - 1 PACIFIC CROSSING
18 - 1 ATLANTIC CROSSING
19 - MAX SEGMENTS - 10
20
21 STOPOVERS - MIN 3 STOPOVERS
22 - MAX 5 STOPOVERS
23 - NO MORE THAN 2 STOPOVERS IN
24 ANY ONE REGION.
25
26 OPEN JAW - PERMITTED PROVIDED ALL OTHER
27 ITIN/STOPOVER/RTG RULES APPLIED
28
29 ROUTING - MUST BE VALID ROUTINGS FROM BOARD
30 TO DESTINATION/STOPOVER POINT
31 - ALL TRAVEL MUST BE IN ONE GEOGRAPHICAL
32 DIRECTION.
33 - NO BACKTRACKING.
34 - SIDE TRIPS MUST BE A SEPARATE AWARD
35 PNR AND TICKET
36 - OPEN SEGMENTS - NOT PERMITTED
40 MIN MIN STAY - NONE
41 MAX MAX STAY - 331 DAYS
42
43 TKTG TICKETING
44 - STOPOVERS MUST BE CONFIRMED AND
45 TICKETED PRIOR TO ORIGINATION.
46
47 REDEP REDEPOSIT
48 - ONCE TRAVEL ORIGINATES, REDEPOSIT
49 IS NOT PERMITTED FOR ANY UNFLOWN
50 PORTION OF THE TICKET.
51
52 MISC RTW AWARD MAY NOT BE COMBINED WITH ANY
53 OTHER AWARD PROMOTION.
54 ------------------------------------------
The DM Award RTW rules are different from the purchase awards. Here are
most of the rules.
10 VALID CARRIERS ALL US DM PARTNERS
11
12 TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR RTW JOURNEY
13 ALL DM AWARD RULES APPLY PLUS THE FOLLOWING.
14
15 ITINERARY THE FOLLOWING ITINERARIES ARE
16 PERMITTED..
17 - 1 PACIFIC CROSSING
18 - 1 ATLANTIC CROSSING
19 - MAX SEGMENTS - 10
20
21 STOPOVERS - MIN 3 STOPOVERS
22 - MAX 5 STOPOVERS
23 - NO MORE THAN 2 STOPOVERS IN
24 ANY ONE REGION.
25
26 OPEN JAW - PERMITTED PROVIDED ALL OTHER
27 ITIN/STOPOVER/RTG RULES APPLIED
28
29 ROUTING - MUST BE VALID ROUTINGS FROM BOARD
30 TO DESTINATION/STOPOVER POINT
31 - ALL TRAVEL MUST BE IN ONE GEOGRAPHICAL
32 DIRECTION.
33 - NO BACKTRACKING.
34 - SIDE TRIPS MUST BE A SEPARATE AWARD
35 PNR AND TICKET
36 - OPEN SEGMENTS - NOT PERMITTED
40 MIN MIN STAY - NONE
41 MAX MAX STAY - 331 DAYS
42
43 TKTG TICKETING
44 - STOPOVERS MUST BE CONFIRMED AND
45 TICKETED PRIOR TO ORIGINATION.
46
47 REDEP REDEPOSIT
48 - ONCE TRAVEL ORIGINATES, REDEPOSIT
49 IS NOT PERMITTED FOR ANY UNFLOWN
50 PORTION OF THE TICKET.
51
52 MISC RTW AWARD MAY NOT BE COMBINED WITH ANY
53 OTHER AWARD PROMOTION.
54 ------------------------------------------
Jan 1, 2010, 3:19 pm
#28
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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Wow, thanks for that information, dylanks. The phone reps refused to email me the rules, so this is great info to have
It does look like the 5 stopovers is pretty much set in stone. Furthermore, I think "ALL DM AWARD RULES APPLY" is why they say that no changes are permitted, with or without fee, after travel has begun.
It does look like the 5 stopovers is pretty much set in stone. Furthermore, I think "ALL DM AWARD RULES APPLY" is why they say that no changes are permitted, with or without fee, after travel has begun.
Feb 23, 2010, 7:54 pm
#29
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Up in the air, or not
Programs: HHonors Diamond, UA 2P, Best Western Diamond
Posts: 66
While I realize my experience isn't with US, it is *A RTW award travel and might be of interest to readers of this thread.
After I spent almost 4 hours talking to two UA cs types, here are some additional data points regarding *A RTW awards.
Yesterday I tried to reserve C seats for the route WAS-FRA-JNB-BKK-AKL-SFO-IAH-LIM-EWR-ORF. Considering availability, the closest possible routing was: BWI-PHL-FRA-CAI-JNB-BKK-AKL-SFO-SJC-PHX-IAH-LIM-EWR-IAD with stopovers in FRA, JNB, BKK, AKL, and LIM.
Specifically, while the 5 stopover rule is the same, UA has a 35k mile max for award travel and that was a ~36,500 miles itin. I suggested deleting SFO-PHX-IAH to get below 35k but the open jaw miles apparently count whether by plane, train, or automobile. Also, open jaw segments count as a stop over so if the SFO-IAH mileage didn't count, it would be a sixth (i.e., not allowed) stopover. Finally, there's also a requirement that the trip end in the same place (not just same country) as it started.
I can't square these with the rules quoted above, obviously my mileage did vary as will yours.
After I spent almost 4 hours talking to two UA cs types, here are some additional data points regarding *A RTW awards.
Yesterday I tried to reserve C seats for the route WAS-FRA-JNB-BKK-AKL-SFO-IAH-LIM-EWR-ORF. Considering availability, the closest possible routing was: BWI-PHL-FRA-CAI-JNB-BKK-AKL-SFO-SJC-PHX-IAH-LIM-EWR-IAD with stopovers in FRA, JNB, BKK, AKL, and LIM.
Specifically, while the 5 stopover rule is the same, UA has a 35k mile max for award travel and that was a ~36,500 miles itin. I suggested deleting SFO-PHX-IAH to get below 35k but the open jaw miles apparently count whether by plane, train, or automobile. Also, open jaw segments count as a stop over so if the SFO-IAH mileage didn't count, it would be a sixth (i.e., not allowed) stopover. Finally, there's also a requirement that the trip end in the same place (not just same country) as it started.
I can't square these with the rules quoted above, obviously my mileage did vary as will yours.