E70 Starts Fll - EYW Route

Old Sep 5, 05, 7:02 pm
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Thumbs up E70 Starts Fll - EYW Route

I just noted that the FLL to EYW route goes to the E70 from the CRJ starting Nov 9. I think this is a good improvement and I gues that US can sell the extra lift during the winter.
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Old Sep 6, 05, 7:12 am
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Excellent.

This will sure be better than the days of riding that Beechcraft 1900 on the TPA-EYW route. I used to book through MIA on purpose just so I could ride the Dash 8 instead of that Beechcraft.

I'm so glad the consolidated this all into a single route and gave it a nice plane.

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Old Sep 6, 05, 9:01 am
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earlier this year they had an ERJ running the route which was an upgrade from the Beechcraft BUT it was always horribly late for no apparent reason other than groundhandling delays. Terribly frustrating for such a short route in a relatively uncrowded airspace (neither EYW or FLL were PHL!)
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Old Sep 6, 05, 9:08 am
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Originally Posted by NeoOfTheCRS
earlier this year they had an ERJ running the route which was an upgrade from the Beechcraft BUT it was always horribly late for no apparent reason other than groundhandling delays. Terribly frustrating for such a short route in a relatively uncrowded airspace (neither EYW or FLL were PHL!)
True, but doesn't FLL have its own set of problems such as only 1 operational runway for commercial traffic? Isn't that a primary reason why the "mini-hub"/"focus city" at FLL has been scaled back?
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Old Sep 6, 05, 9:36 am
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Originally Posted by NeoOfTheCRS
earlier this year they had an ERJ running the route which was an upgrade from the Beechcraft BUT it was always horribly late for no apparent reason other than groundhandling delays. Terribly frustrating for such a short route in a relatively uncrowded airspace (neither EYW or FLL were PHL!)
Actually it's a PSA CRJ. The problems stemmed from FLL congestion, South Florida afternoon t-storms, and the occasional other ground handling delay. The aircraft has been routed DCA-MCO-FLL-EYW-FLL-EYW-FLL-EYW-FLL-MCO-DCA each day.... with turns 30 minutes and under scheduled on most. Once there is one delay, the rest just cascade, and about the second round trip FLL-EYW, the storms start to pop up.

Ground handling at EYW has very rarely caused a delay... they turn CRJs in 15 minutes frequently to try and make up time. FLL congestion and weather causes the problems.
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Old Sep 6, 05, 9:38 am
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Originally Posted by jimcfsus
True, but doesn't FLL have its own set of problems such as only 1 operational runway for commercial traffic? Isn't that a primary reason why the "mini-hub"/"focus city" at FLL has been scaled back?
FLL has three runways. They only use one because of the complaints of neighbors. The FAA ordered FLL to reopen the other runways. The best FLL offered was to open, I believe, the intersecting runway for regional jet flights. There's currently a court battle between the FAA and FLL over the runway situation. The airport refuses to utilize all available runways.
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Old Sep 6, 05, 12:39 pm
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Originally Posted by JAXPax
FLL has three runways. They only use one because of the complaints of neighbors. The FAA ordered FLL to reopen the other runways. The best FLL offered was to open, I believe, the intersecting runway for regional jet flights. There's currently a court battle between the FAA and FLL over the runway situation. The airport refuses to utilize all available runways.
gonna sound like a wacko here, but FAA should treat runways like they treat slots at controlled airports - use them or lose them.

If FLL will only use runway, take the other 2 off the books (literally). Let them then fight in a few years and pay the big costs with getting them reapproved (and MIA might fit it then).

Maybe with such a spectre hanging over local heads, they would compromise.

[btw for those of you waking up late, EYW = Key West. I had a brain freeze and had to look it up]

Last edited by hscottm; Sep 6, 05 at 12:40 pm Reason: forgot to add.
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Old Sep 6, 05, 5:06 pm
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JaxPax,

We actually turned a CRJ in 9 minutes last week, had 35 coming off and 22 going on. :P

The flights are very well padded, with an extra 10 minutes of flying time on FLL/EYW and about 6 minutes on EYW/FLL due to the fact that PSA can only fly in/out of EYW via the Duval1 arrival/departure... which unfortunately aims the CRJ right into the heart of the Everglades Thunderstorm Alley. Now if PSA had lifevests on the CRJs, we could fly the air-route that goes straight east of here then straight north to Miami....

the 3PM flight out of EYW is the one to be avoided.... granted its the last connection opp to CLT, that flight is the one that would get hit by weather. Rarely do the 1225P and 545P flts get nailed by weather delays (unless its a prior flight).
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Old Sep 6, 05, 5:07 pm
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oh, also avoid 881 CLT-FLL. I don't think this flight has ever been on time... this is the 9AM flight. We get more misconnects from this sucker than any other flight. Sometimes 933 PHL-FLL runs late, but its not nearly as bad as 881.
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Old Sep 6, 05, 8:26 pm
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Smile Yes hscottm, I think your're wacko

Originally Posted by hscottm
gonna sound like a wacko here, but FAA should treat runways like they treat slots at controlled airports - use them or lose them.
Runways, unlike slots, are tangible assets.
So FLL decides not to use them and instead "lose them".
What's the FAA gonna do ?? Pack up the runway(s) and move them to another airport

The FAA and/or munincipal bonds have already paid for these runways. It's only fair they demand they be put to use.

As for noise complaints, I wonder how many of these neighborhoods were built after the runways. I don't know the specifics of FLL, but it amazes me how many airports are hit by noise restrictions by communities built after the airport; and whose only reason for their growth over the years has been due to said airport located only a few miles away !!

Steve
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Old Sep 6, 05, 8:41 pm
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Originally Posted by steve64
Runways, unlike slots, are tangible assets.
So FLL decides not to use them and instead "lose them".
What's the FAA gonna do ?? Pack up the runway(s) and move them to another airport
Pull a Richard Daley/Meigs Field and carve giant Xs all over the runway; that would take them out of action pretty quickly.
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Old Sep 6, 05, 9:40 pm
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Originally Posted by steve64
Runways, unlike slots, are tangible assets.
So FLL decides not to use them and instead "lose them".
What's the FAA gonna do ?? Pack up the runway(s) and move them to another airport

The FAA and/or munincipal bonds have already paid for these runways. It's only fair they demand they be put to use.

As for noise complaints, I wonder how many of these neighborhoods were built after the runways. I don't know the specifics of FLL, but it amazes me how many airports are hit by noise restrictions by communities built after the airport; and whose only reason for their growth over the years has been due to said airport located only a few miles away !!
ok when I said wacko I should have said "informed wacko". I understand about tangible assets (I lecture on them twice a week).

Point is, FAA can decide which runways are usable or not (think about approval process) - also see the followup post about Giant X's. FAA can say "its shut down now, and cant be used for any purpose. think we're bluffing?"

The local residents want the best of both worlds. But everyone has paid for the runways, not just the locals. In fact, with the federal share considered, and the fact that landing fees/etc are used to supplement, the locals have probably paid for less than half.
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Old Sep 7, 05, 1:37 pm
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Originally Posted by NeoOfTheCRS
relatively uncrowded airspace (neither EYW or FLL were PHL!)
(Redundant)

Last edited by chtiet; Sep 7, 05 at 1:41 pm
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Old Sep 7, 05, 7:01 pm
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Originally Posted by hscottm
ok when I said wacko I should have said "informed wacko". I understand about tangible assets (I lecture on them twice a week).

Point is, FAA can decide which runways are usable or not (think about approval process) - also see the followup post about Giant X's. FAA can say "its shut down now, and cant be used for any purpose. think we're bluffing?"

The local residents want the best of both worlds. But everyone has paid for the runways, not just the locals. In fact, with the federal share considered, and the fact that landing fees/etc are used to supplement, the locals have probably paid for less than half.
I don't know of any airport that has a tax on local residents to pay for airport improvements. The locals pay squat yet act like they own it.
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Old Sep 8, 05, 9:05 am
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Originally Posted by JS
I don't know of any airport that has a tax on local residents to pay for airport improvements. The locals pay squat yet act like they own it.
this is my point. when I suggest "locals paying for it" I was referring to locals who might be using the airport and paying landing and other airport fees.

lots of tourist traffic to FLL, I woudlnt be surprised that the vast majority of money coming in to their fund is from non-locals.
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