anyone else hate southwest?

Old Aug 19, 2005, 9:41 am
  #61  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maryland
Programs: HH Diamond, Bonvoy Gold, AA Plat
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by PineyBob
I would argue that if the HP/US merger goes through and the new US can successfully create a clear definition of itself then the airline will be very successful and SWA will finally have a formidable competitor. When the airline industry finally figures out that you can't out SWA, SWA then you will see some highly creative ideas that will give SWA fits. Remember not everyone buys at Wal_Mart or Nordstroms, Some use Target and IMO the airline that can be the "Target" of aviation will do very very well, as will Wal-Mart Air, aka SWA.

The next few years could be an exciting time to be a frequent flyer.
You just hit the nail on the head. Great thought. Target has a reputation as being a more welcoming environment, a better experience, etc, but still a low-cost place to shop.

I'll admit, I'm new to the frills side of flying, but I also really enjoy that. If US/HP can be an airline that blends the low-cost side but can preserve some of the legacy frills and that feeling that flying isn't taking the bus, then they will have an incredibly potent combo as the "Target of the Skies".
jaymay is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2005, 11:05 am
  #62  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: MKE
Programs: AA Exec Platinum, SPG Platinum / Ambassador / Lifetime Gold, Avis FIRST
Posts: 3,293
Originally Posted by jaymay
If US/HP can be an airline that blends the low-cost side but can preserve some of the legacy frills and that feeling that flying isn't taking the bus, then they will have an incredibly potent combo as the "Target of the Skies".
That, my friend, is exactly what US/HP is going for. The big question is: can they do it?

I completely agree, if they can somehow create an airline with the reliability, predictability, low cost, and customer service of an LCC like WN, yet also with a multi-tier FF program, F class, TA flights .... It'd be a dream.

I think there's a chance they can pull it off, but it's going to be an uphill battle.
Jumpgate is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2005, 11:27 am
  #63  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: WAS, FLL
Programs: AA, B6, CO, DL, FL, UA, US Gold (only took 10k miles), WN, Amtrak
Posts: 1,299
Originally Posted by duranza
What other airline will give you a credit on your airfare should it drop in price?
Southwest.

I've done it 2x
And US, done it plenty of times.
GWU ESIA STUDENT is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2005, 11:34 am
  #64  
Moderator: American AAdvantage & Marriott Bonvoy
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: PHX
Programs: American ExPlat; Marriott/SPG Lifetime Plat; Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 8,120
Originally Posted by Jumpgate
That, my friend, is exactly what US/HP is going for. The big question is: can they do it?

I completely agree, if they can somehow create an airline with the reliability, predictability, low cost, and customer service of an LCC like WN, yet also with a multi-tier FF program, F class, TA flights .... It'd be a dream. . .
I agree -- I think that is exactly what they're going for. Using the current HP as the model, they're stripping out a lot of the legacy frills like free food in coach and several policies just announced this week: no unaccompanied minors on connecting flights, no flying pets as cargo, no airline supplied oxygen. Still, they're striving to economically provide enough frills to provide a better overall product and to substantiate themselves as a tier above the true LCC's like WN.

I think the Wal-Mart/Target analogy is pretty close. Curiously, if you follow the retail sector, Wal-Mart is taking a beating in the market as a result of sky rocketing gas prices. Their focus is so dependent upon the low- to mid-economic classes that when gas prices go up as much as they have, those buyers have to buy gas, so they spend less in the stores. Because of this, Wal-Mart's growth is perceived by the market as limited. CEO Lee Scott has said a number of times recently that this is a very real problem and they've issued earnings warnings as a result.

To counter this, Wal-Mart is pursuing a new up-market strategy. In other words, going after the Target customers, in addition to the current Wal-Mart customers. I'm not clear exactly how they're going to accomplish this inside their existing stores, as they've been so successful with the rock-bottom price approach that many of the Target or Kohl's type shoppers won't even consider going there. This, of course, is an argument for WN to stay the course and remain focused on its target audience -- the "you can't be all things to all people" issue. But, with that strategy, could the same growth problem facing Wal-Mart some day challenge WN as well?
AZ Travels the World is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2005, 12:25 pm
  #65  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Dallas, TX, AA 3MM EXP, WN
Posts: 1,808
Originally Posted by Jumpgate
That, my friend, is exactly what US/HP is going for. The big question is: can they do it?

I completely agree, if they can somehow create an airline with the reliability, predictability, low cost, and customer service of an LCC like WN, yet also with a multi-tier FF program, F class, TA flights .... It'd be a dream.

I think there's a chance they can pull it off, but it's going to be an uphill battle.
Unfortunaty, Airtran, Frontier, Alaska, and JetBlue have already beat them to the market
MrMan is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2005, 12:30 pm
  #66  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maryland
Programs: HH Diamond, Bonvoy Gold, AA Plat
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by AZ Travels the World
no airline supplied oxygen.
I know what this really about, but it's just a fun thought with all of the cutbacks. "Ladies and gentlemen, in preparation for departure, please don your pressurized helmets. For our passengers in the main cabin, helmets will be available at a cost of $5 from your flight attendant."

Originally Posted by AZ Travels the World
But, with that strategy, could the same growth problem facing Wal-Mart some day challenge WN as well?
I think this is where the difference between basic consumer good and flying comes in. People do tend to travel less in leaner economic times, but the lowest common denomiator in air travelers is above the basic level. I'm not sure there are tons of people who are flying WN regularly for whom it is the only flight option. Preferred for low price, perhaps, but I am not sure people are deciding between Greyhound and Southwest. (Though the similarities... nah, I'll be nice. )
jaymay is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2005, 12:47 pm
  #67  
Moderator: American AAdvantage & Marriott Bonvoy
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: PHX
Programs: American ExPlat; Marriott/SPG Lifetime Plat; Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 8,120
Originally Posted by MrMan
Unfortunaty, Airtran, Frontier, Alaska, and JetBlue have already beat them to the market
Perhaps, but none of them come anywhere close to the size and scope of the new US? That's the difference.
AZ Travels the World is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2005, 1:25 pm
  #68  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Dallas, TX, AA 3MM EXP, WN
Posts: 1,808
Where I feel WN made the "Great Leap" is the legacies priced them selves out of the market for the business travelers on walkup fares. What I find ironic is that the majority of the people who talk of WN being "unclassy"etc are from the people flying for free, be they airline employees or as I am ,a very frequent flyer who does not pay for my ticket. If the walkup fare difference is more than a months flight attendants salary, I suspect the FA would be flying the "unclassy, greyhound, walmart" airline. If I have to buy a walkup out of my pocket, and the difference between WN's max $299 fare in any market and paying US walkup fare which can be up to four times the price difference in coach., I am flying WN. And though I love first class, if I am paying, a chance of upgrading or the "experience of an RJ " is just not worth the cash. If my employer is paying, or my client then pass me the hot towels.

Add to this WN frequency between markets (note when the load factor gets high they just put another new cash paid plane on the route).

Look at Dallas-Houston, STL-Chicago, Inter FLA, Inter Calf, Kansas City-Chicago etc if your flying for business you are flying WN even though you may be a FF in the other airlines hub city due to not being raped on walkup fares, not getting the RJ experience and WN high frequency between non traditional city pairs. WN owns these business markets and its their bread and butter.

We are talking a business here, not a religion. Except the French, who "hates" a great business model?

This is what makes this "unclassy" airline a successful business model, a Wall Street Darling, a great employer, Boeings largest customer, more domestic flights than any other airline, flys more Americans around the country cheaply than any other airline. Do you "hate" the success this country was built on, or is it that you are pissed no one is continuing to pay for your $500 hot towel upgrade?
MrMan is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2005, 1:34 pm
  #69  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: mystic island, nj, USA
Posts: 2,377
Originally Posted by AZ Travels the World
But, with that strategy, could the same growth problem facing Wal-Mart some day challenge WN as well?

I happen to think we are seeing the beginnings of the challenges facing SWA. Fuel hedges expire soon opening then up to higher costs.

Also they are starting to face the Top of Scale dilema that other established carriers have faced.

All carriers to some extent are rationalizing fares so that might not bode well for SWA. The playing field gets leveler that way and things other than price creep into the equation.

Also the same demographic issues that face Wal-Mart may impact SWA if prices remain high for fuel keeping tickets more expensive
PineyBob is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2005, 1:57 pm
  #70  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maryland
Programs: HH Diamond, Bonvoy Gold, AA Plat
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by MrMan
Do you "hate" the success this country was built on, or is it that you are pissed no one is continuing to pay for your $500 hot towel upgrade?
I don't get hot towels when I upgrade...
jaymay is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2005, 2:23 pm
  #71  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Programs: US1
Posts: 1,928
Now it is easy to tell that my #1 airline is US Airways. Now I do not hate SWA. They most definitely are not my airline of choice that is for sure. I have had to fly them once this year because I had no other choice however, to say that I hate them....that is a pretty strong word.

SWA runs a business that works well for them. They have targeted a certain market that works for them. Most people these days don't care about the frills that go with first class. Many people just want to get from point A to point B. Now of course there are others who want a hot towel or a "green lime" in there drink or a hot meal.

It is not SWA's fault that US Airways ran away from LAX and BWI. And the flights in both cities were doing great. I was told from one of the employees at the US Airways club that Bruce Lakesfield wishes that he had more gates out of BWI because he would like to get back into that market. Well at the moment he can do nothing. All of the old US Airways gates are occupied to the other carriers do to construction. I do not know if US Airways is subleasing those gates out or not. I certainly hope they are because that would mean at least some money in their pocket. And when the other carriers can move back they can reclaim their gates again.

You can choose not to fly an airline for what ever reason you want to. But to hate one? I just think that is kind of silly. Especially when the one that you do not like is doing so well. I hope one day that US Airways will roll in the profits like SWA. With many FA's. GA's and other employees on the "higher end" of the pay scale that will be leaving in the next couple of quarters, we will see US Airways costs fall and hopefully things will start getting better. But the huge thing that is killing everyone is fuel.
US AIRWAYS FAN is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2005, 3:03 pm
  #72  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 270
There are scores of empty gates in Pier D, albeit they lack jetways. If US really wanted to beef up BWI, is there anything stopping it from using those gates? Besides the inconvenience of airstairs, is there a rule against using the USE gates?

When WN moved out of Pier C in May, that left about 5-6 gates open. When I flew US out of BWI Pier D last month, on the walk to the USE gates, Airtran had the gates on the left, but the gates on the right looked empty.

I wish US would come back to BWI. I bet many others would welcome them back as well.

Originally Posted by US AIRWAYS FAN
Now it is easy to tell that my #1 airline is US Airways. Now I do not hate SWA. They most definitely are not my airline of choice that is for sure. I have had to fly them once this year because I had no other choice however, to say that I hate them....that is a pretty strong word.

SWA runs a business that works well for them. They have targeted a certain market that works for them. Most people these days don't care about the frills that go with first class. Many people just want to get from point A to point B. Now of course there are others who want a hot towel or a "green lime" in there drink or a hot meal.

It is not SWA's fault that US Airways ran away from LAX and BWI. And the flights in both cities were doing great. I was told from one of the employees at the US Airways club that Bruce Lakesfield wishes that he had more gates out of BWI because he would like to get back into that market. Well at the moment he can do nothing. All of the old US Airways gates are occupied to the other carriers do to construction. I do not know if US Airways is subleasing those gates out or not. I certainly hope they are because that would mean at least some money in their pocket. And when the other carriers can move back they can reclaim their gates again.

You can choose not to fly an airline for what ever reason you want to. But to hate one? I just think that is kind of silly. Especially when the one that you do not like is doing so well. I hope one day that US Airways will roll in the profits like SWA. With many FA's. GA's and other employees on the "higher end" of the pay scale that will be leaving in the next couple of quarters, we will see US Airways costs fall and hopefully things will start getting better. But the huge thing that is killing everyone is fuel.
bwiflyer01 is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2005, 3:15 pm
  #73  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Programs: US1
Posts: 1,928
Really??? I had no idea there were that many (if any) gates that were open in Pier D. Maybe some of those gates were recently vacated? I was told that pier D was full (not too long ago.)
US AIRWAYS FAN is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2005, 3:24 pm
  #74  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 270
That was just based on my observations, I don't know if US leases those gates I saw were empty. The majority of the empty gates I was referring to are upper-numbered D gates that are used by USE. When you get to the bottom of the escalator, USE uses the gates on the right but no one is using the gates to the left.

There are a number of Pier C gates out of commission right now while BWI completes construction of the A/B pier connection.

Originally Posted by US AIRWAYS FAN
Really??? I had no idea there were that many (if any) gates that were open in Pier D. Maybe some of those gates were recently vacated? I was told that pier D was full (not too long ago.)
bwiflyer01 is offline  
Old Aug 19, 2005, 4:35 pm
  #75  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: WN CP
Posts: 6,360
Originally Posted by PineyBob
Also the same demographic issues that face Wal-Mart may impact SWA if prices remain high for fuel keeping tickets more expensive
Because only the poor fly WN, right? That makes absolutely no sense.
curbcrusher is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.